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post #103 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 12:42 AM
Big Dawg
Ruckus's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 911
Even though this thread is a non UFC or MMA issue I am glad that the mods let it flow because there has been an excellent exchange of information and opinions. The hope would be that Karo somehow receive all of the support needed for his own personal recovery. That being said, I am absolutely amazed by the closed mindedness of some posters on this thread. For example, the "orange papers" is an online book and to suggest that NA even be part of that discussion is doing a disservice to anyone seeking treatment or help. World Services is a business (in both NA and AA) and has no affiliation other than providing a business service to 12 step groups. Alcohol kills, and even if some one quits drinking they may have very well already done irreversible damage and will die. All step programs pretty much make the same claim, that if someone is willing to surrender to the basic principles of the program, the can benefit with long term abstinence from using and a better quality of life. They also clearly state that it is not a religious program, rather a spiritual program. Someone who makes unfounded claims that it is a cult is just simply ignorant to the exact nature of the disease of addiction. A disease is classified as progressive, chronic, terminal and fatal a criteria of which addiction meets. The difference between addiction and say, diabetes, is that addiction is the only disease that is entirely self diagnosed, which is necessary for any sort of recovery. Unfortunately, those who do not recovery usually have denied some part of the total surrender to the disease. Its real hard for someone to admit to something that has carried a negative stigma in mainstream society for decades. It also requires change. There are seven changes which suggest that if you do one or all, you increase the chances of arresting the disease; Proffesional Help, Exercise, Diet, Daily Self Reflection, Prayer and/or Meditation, 12 Step Groups, Structure or Routine. Many people fail at recovery because they simply refuse to make any changes, other than try to stop using. I work in a treatment facility and some of the success we see is dictated by the alumni who return to the facility to share their experience. Those that stay clean all say that a key to their recovery was regular meeting attendance in a 12 step program. I can go online and find any number of resources which basically say the 12 step programs don't work, usually those sites have an agenda of their own, whether it be selling a book of the "cure" or offering their services of some kind. The most effective way found to arrest the disease of addiction and have long term abstinence from active using is found in NA, AA, GA, OEA, CA, CMA, etc.; all 12 step programs. There are people who have quit using never to pick up agin and have progressed in life without the aid of a 12 step program, however those numbers are minimal when compared to the tens of thousands of people who have found long term recovery in the fellowship of a program geared to recovery.

heres a few links:

I am in know way making an attack on someone's opinion, rather I am just providing another idea and perception to something that is insanity at best.

"One is not disturbed by events. Rather he is disturbed by his perception of those evets." -Epictetus

"Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

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