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post #21 of (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by D.P. View Post
I don't agree with that. Jones gnp was pretty good, but Hamill was getting his arms in there and stopping a lot of them, if not most from doing full damage. I think it was a rare moment where we actually saw Maz do right in NOT stopping it earlier. There were only a few strikes that got in there with full force. Including the last couple of illegal elbows that had Hamill pulling guard for no reason.
Again, I mentioned this earlier. There are about 20 seconds in which Hamill literally does nothing to resist the punishment. He just puts the hands in front of his face and the hooks go through.

He only starts to get the arms in once Jones slows down to look at Mazzagatti, wondering why the hell he wasn't doing anything.

So he couldn't continue because of his shoulder?
Yeah. I realize you're trying to point out that the statements are contradictory in nature. They're not.

Fighters continue after sustaining mild concussions all the time. They try to regain orientation, usually try and work their way into the clinch and slow the pace, and sometimes it works.

Very, very few fighters will even attempt to continue with a dislocated shoulder. That's a fight ending injury, while a mild concussion is only a potentially fight ending injury.

Hamill's camp has admitted that his shoulder was the reason he could no longer continue. That seems like clear evidence that the 12-to-6 elbow had nothing to do with the end of the fight (as well as the fact that the dislocation happened much earlier).

Originally Posted by TheGrizzlyBear View Post
I think the DQ was a good call, He went back and used the new instant replay to see what happened. He saw the damage caused from the illegal elbows and ruled it a DQ.
Again. The fact that the illegal elbow caused damage does not legitimize the DQ. In order to justify the DQ, there needs to be a connection between the illegal elbow and the end of the fight.

If (and this is a big if) Mazzagatti had stopped the fight and called the doctor in to take a look at the cut on Hamill's nose (which he didn't, a stupid call on his part) and the doctor had found that the cut was too severe to allow Hamill to continue, then Mazzagatti could end the fight and declare the fight a DQ, as the illegal elbow was the clear reason for the cut.

But that's not what Mazzagatti did.

Mazzagatti consulted Hamill about Hamill's willingness to continue. Hamill (who, because of his deafness, was rushed to a decision and unable to communicate with Mazzagatti) threw in the towel, but for a reason that had nothing to do with the cut. He's even said that.

Mazzagatti used the instant replay, which is great technology as far as I'm concerned, but the failure wasn't in the implementation of the technology, it was the effective use of the rules. The rules on when it's appropriate to issue a DQ are clear, and even Keith Kizer has said in post-fight interviews that an ending needs to be demonstrated.

At best, Mazzagatti and the people defending him are engaging in post hoc thinking.

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