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Have the ufc p4p rankings changed after last night?

5K views 102 replies 38 participants last post by  js1316 
#1 ·
I personally would put Penn in at number two. Since moving down to l/w he has finished every fighter he has fought and really made them look very average. Last night he showed how good he really is. I realise he lost to gsp however imo he did win the first fight and im certain if gsp moved up 185 Silva would do the same thing to him.

My rankings

Silva
Penn
Gsp
 
#7 ·
I make him the third best fighter in the UFC.

Behind Silva and GSP, but honestly it's so close. Those three seem like a different breed compared to the other fighters in their divisions.
 
#8 ·
Yeah it was the ufc rankings. I am going to disagree with gsp being above him and this is not based on him beating Sanchez. Bj penn is a 2 weight world champion and has looked devastating when fighting at 155. Yesterday was an example of what hes capable of. I think him, Silva and Gsp have all pretty much cleared out there weight divisions. Penn has also fought the current lhw champ and he took that to a decision (yes it was a very long time a go). Id like to see to Gsp step up a weight class and see how affective he is. Im taking nothing away form Gsp, hes an absolute beast
 
#10 ·
Bj is 0-3 in his last 3 WW fights... that hardly screams p4p champ to me. He has been doing well at LW, but GSP is fighting better competition at WW, and GSP also destroyed Bj the last time they fought... weight difference or not, I don't see how you can rank Bj above GSP when he got beat that bad.
 
#9 ·
Silva and GSP are still above him in the rankings. I'd put him ahead of Machida right now.

If Machida pulls off a dominant performance in his Shogun rematch, that may change however.
 
#11 ·
Lets be honest here, GSP fights guys that are smaller than him, anderson silva does the same, the HW fighters are to dispersed for fedor to be declared p4p the greatest(despite his awesomeness) BJ penn Is the one guy that would fight king Kong if he had to! The dude is so good at his weight that he has to fight above his weight for a challenge. He relies on pure skill which is a rarity nowadays rather than a massive weight cut.

How anyone can say he's not the P4P best is beyond me
 
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#28 ·
I totally agree. Look at it like this....pretend BJ never fought at WW since he came back, he's dominated 155 so badly he has to be top 3 p4p in the UFC. My top 5 is as follows:

Silva
Penn
GSP
Machida
Lesnar

Penn and GSP are basically a tie, I put Penn ahead because he's only lost once at LW in 8 years, GSP has lost twice in 5 years. Obviously it wasn't beating Diego that moved him up in my p4p list...it was the fact that he completely and totally dominated Diego the entire fight and Diego was the clear-cut #1 contender.
 
#14 ·
if P4P means you can beat anyone in your own weight class plus most guys in weight classes above you, then I think it's Fedor, then BJ, then Anderson, then GSP, then Machida.

I'm not really positive what the P4P rankings are based on and never have been as long as I've been watching MMA. They're very subjective. It's not really anything you can prove, it's just based on personal opinions and speculation.


Fedor can and has beaten everyone he has faced that have all been bigger than him, IMO he's a clear cut #1 for the rest of history.

BJ is in the lowest weight class of the top 5 so IMO he has more guys to beat from higher weight classes. He could beat 95% of the WWs, maybe 75% of MWs, and perhaps even a couple LHWs.

Anderson is a big MW but he has cleaned out his division and has been undefeated since trying LHW out so he has credentials to be considered in the top 3.

GSP has never fought anyone bigger than him except Alves. GSP consistently fights guys his own size or smaller. There's no evidence from his career that I can base off of to say that he is capable of beating most MWs, LHWs, or any HWs at all. But he certainly has the ability, it's just there's no past history to go on to say for sure.

Machida still needs to rack up some more wins before he surpasses anyone on the list. He is a relatively small-average sized LHW so the guys he is fighting are usually naturally bigger than him, so that's a plus. He has the ability to beat HWs for sure, but we can't say with certainty until we see him at least try, kinda like GSPs issue.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Na Lyoto is definitley ahead of BJ because Penn already lost to him and would be outclassed again if they fight. So he is p4p better not only because he has a weight advantage over BJ!

My rankings are like this in the UFC

1.Anderson Silva
2.Lyoto Machida
3.GSP
4.BJ Penn

but the thing about BJ Penn is this guy fight's everybody in every weight class. So in my opinion he deserves to be called the best p4p in the World even through he isn't. Nobody has and will ever do this.

Just as an example look at GSP how damn scared he is to move up an face Anderson. That's the difference between those two, BJ takes risks that makes him the greatest ever.
 
#17 ·
I think when ppl talk about p4p they place an emphasis on skill set rather than their weight. If all thing being equal and all fighters such as penn, fedor, silva, gsp, even lesnar where the same weight how would you rank them?

Lesnar simply despite his great wrestling skills relies on his disproportionate size advantage and if all things were equal he wouldnt make the top 4.

Anderson Silva? Great fighter but lets face it he again relies on a size advantage despite his great striking and takedown defence....if his skills where tested at LHW would he be as effective? Simply put we cant know for sure so that lowers his rating imho.

GSP again great skills best in his weightclass, but again relies on a size differential.

Fedor, is a legend fights guys that are bigger than him could prob cut to LHW if he wanted, however the only thing that would prevent me from putting him numero uno is the fact that the HW division across mma is too dispersed.

Bj penn fights at his natural weight, his take down defence grappling stand up is superior to everyone in his weight class. Even guys like sanchez (who after weighing in at 155 got up to 167 in a couple of hours)



So i'd put it

Penn
Silva
Fedor
Gsp
 
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#18 ·
I can agree with most of that, except at least switch Fedor and Anderson. I think you did forget to mention that Andy is 2-0 at LHW sounds like by your wording you weren't aware of that. But Fedor is undefeated in his career and has beat 7 guys who have been UFC heavyweight champs....not to mention he is undefeated in over 30 fights against guys bigger than him. Good post though :thumbsup:
 
#19 ·
I don't really get people placing Machida so high in the P4P list. The whole concept of making a list like this has way too many conflicting arguements for why one fighter is above another... However to me A.Silva, GSP & Penn can be seen as clear cut top 3 imo because of the way they completely destroyed everyone in their weight class. Machida on the other hand hasn't been the champ all that long and he didn't look a class above his division in his last fight with Shogun in fact he looked far from it.

Providing GSP smashes through Hardy i think he should go to 185 and fight a highly ranked MW so his skill/size/athleticism can truely be tested.
 
#23 · (Edited)
People talk about Machida but he pretty much got beat by Shogun, or at least taken to a razor thin decision. I don't recall GSP, BJ or Anderson being in any close fights at their weight class in recent times.

BJ has completely destroyed Stevenson, Sherk, Florian and now Sanchez. Machida has soundly beat Ortiz, T.Silva, Evans and got a close decision over Shogun that many feel he lost. It's not really comparable to the absolute destructions of Penn, who convincingly finished all of the LWs I mentioned. I don't think Machida is even relevant in P4P at the moment.

P4P best is a difficult topic. Fedor has beaten more fighters that are heavier than he is, but GSP, Silva and Penn have beaten the current best in their divisions. From what I can remember Penn has done this more convincingly than anyone else. He hasn't been rocked or troubled by anyone at LW in a long time.
 
#98 ·
P4P best is a difficult topic. Fedor has beaten more fighters that are heavier than he is, but GSP, Silva and Penn have beaten the current best in their divisions. From what I can remember Penn has done this more convincingly than anyone else. He hasn't been rocked or troubled by anyone at LW in a long time.

Sigh. Give me a break. Diego was ranked #6, Hardy is ranked #6, Rogers was ranked #6. Don't start this "Fedor doesn't face the best of the division" bullshit when Arlovski was top 5, Sylvia was top 10, Rogers was top 10, before that and now he was scheduled to face Barnett who was ranked #2 before he lost his license.


I totally agree. Look at it like this....pretend BJ never fought at WW since he came back, he's dominated 155 so badly he has to be top 3 p4p in the UFC. My top 5 is as follows:

Silva
Penn
GSP
Machida
Lesnar

Penn and GSP are basically a tie, I put Penn ahead because he's only lost once at LW in 8 years, GSP has lost twice in 5 years. Obviously it wasn't beating Diego that moved him up in my p4p list...it was the fact that he completely and totally dominated Diego the entire fight and Diego was the clear-cut #1 contender.
How could Penn and GSP be a tie when, at the same exact weight, GSP dominated Penn? And Lesnar is top five pound-for-pound? What the hell? He's never faced anyone within 35lbs of him, infact he's only ever faced four people.

Why are people talking about fighting out of their current weight class? The questions is best P4P not best fighter period. Speculation about how GSP would do a weight class above him is just that, speculation. Look at what they have done in their respective divisions.
.

Respective division = "Top fighter at their division." Just because you're the top of your division doesn't mean you're a P4P fighter. Silva at 175 for example was HUGE, way bigger than anyone he fought, so he shouldn't have been in P4P contention. He moved up a weight class and was dominant, then was dominant at 205 = P4P contention. Fedor just wrecked a guy much much bigger than him who was top 10, and Fedor fights above his natural weight class.
 
#25 ·
Every time we see Silva, GSP, or Penn fight, one of the three individuals automatically becomes the Pound For Pound King, so I see little point to these threads. When GSP mauls Dan Hardy, the boards will be flooded with people ranking him higher than Silva and Penn. It's just how these things tend to work. I honestly don't see how you can rank Penn higher than St. Pierre when one was utterly dismantled by the other, but that's just me. We can call it size difference all we want, but is that not the same reason we often tend to rank Silva over St. Pierre? I'm a massive GSP mark, but even I admit that were he to move to MW for a super-fight with Anderson, size difference alone would be to GSP's detriment. Unless he can walk the Frank Mir route and successfully bulk up without effecting his speed and cardiovascular endurance. That would be a much different story.

When GSP finishes Dan Hardy, I'll look for this exact same thread, only with the rankings reorganized. That's simply how predictable we as MMA fans can be.
 
#26 ·
Every time we see Silva, GSP, or Penn fight, one of the three individuals automatically becomes the Pound For Pound King, so I see little point to these threads. When GSP mauls Dan Hardy, the boards will be flooded with people ranking him higher than Silva and Penn. It's just how these things tend to work. I honestly don't see how you can rank Penn higher than St. Pierre when one was utterly dismantled by the other, but that's just me. We can call it size difference all we want, but is that not the same reason we often tend to rank Silva over St. Pierre?
Good point :thumbsup:

It's really true what you saying. Most people only see the last fight of a fighter and rank him then. That's way Machida isn't even in the top 5 anymore by most people on this board. Because they just see the last fight wich was a pretty close one.
 
#29 ·
Why are people talking about fighting out of their current weight class? The questions is best P4P not best fighter period. Speculation about how GSP would do a weight class above him is just that, speculation. Look at what they have done in their respective divisions.

IMO, the list should go like this seeing at what they have done and who they have fought:

Silva - Cleared out the whole division with names such as Hendo (future hall of famer) and Franklin

GSP - Cleared out whole division with incredible fighters such as Hughes (future hall of famer) and Fitch

BJ - Dominated every fight in the division since returning from the WW div. No fights with as big a names as the 2 above.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I definitely don't agree that BJ should be ranked ahead of GSP. I rate BJ incredibly highly as a fighter, but you cannot look beyond the beating GSP gave to BJ when they last fought, and that should have an impact on the P4P. My UFC rankings would be:

1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St-Pierre
3. BJ Penn
4. Lyoto Machida

No idea who comes after that. Lesnar?
 
#36 ·
P4P lists are so flawed and based on popularity.


Like Silva - he rarely faces someone his own size let alone someone bigger. The only time he ever faced anyone slightly bigger was against Lutter and he looked pretty awful until Lutter gave up. When he was at 170-175 it was like him picking on little kids. So how can we say P4P best if he struggles with bigger competition?

GSP has thoroughly dominated bigger competition consistently so he makes the P4P easily. Most people Fedor faces are bigger than him, and he's undefeated and holds plenty of records so of course he's P4P.


Shogun is a very small LHW and easily dominates way bigger guys (Rampage comes to mind) so he makes the P4P for sure.
 
#39 ·
I think Penn is a better p4p fighter than GSP, like its really doesnt matter that he lost to him. P4P has nothing to do with fighting in other weight classes, but IMO Penn is better and more dominant at LW than GSP is a WW. Like Penn is the best standup LW in the UFC and the best Ground fighter at LW how the hell do you beat him unless your bigger than him?

My UFC p4p rankings would go:
1.Anderson
2.Penn
3.GSP

I dont even put Machida with them, he is not head and shoulders over his division like they are and I dont think he won that last fight.
 
#42 · (Edited)
BJ Penn losses at WW and HW dont count against him in p4p imo. He is obv a natural LW and the only reason he fights over that is he is a supernatural athlete and competitor. He isnt like Anderson who is obv a natural LHW moved down to MW.

He is just that good. There is almost no choice but to move up in the future, i hope he does so with the same determination and training he has shown recently. Ppl arent calling for Machida to move up, he argueablely lost his last fight how would he be above Silva, GSP or Penn who have defended there titles numerous times easily and ppl want to see move up to higher divisions because they dominate their own so absurdly.

btw my UFC top 3 are in order

Silva
GSP
BJ Penn
 
#43 · (Edited)
Pound for pound is the term used in boxing, mixed martial arts, and other combat sports to describe a fighter's value in relation to fighters of different weight classes. In boxing, Ring Magazine's pound for pound list is the established standard for ranking fighters pound for pound. Because of the emphasis on the size of the boxer, pound for pound ratings predominantly feature fewer heavyweights, focusing primarily on boxers middleweight or below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_for_pound

Wikipedia is not the go to site for perfect, 100% truth. However, most of us here know the weight is the deciding factor for P4P status anyways, so it works.

Using that logic, You have Penn who is 0-3 at WW, GSP who has yet to even face someone higher than him, Anderson who is impressively 2-0 at LHW, and then Fedor, who is a very small HW who could probably cut to 205, and always, on a consistent basis, fights guys much larger than he is. A lot of these guys, such as Arlovski and Rogers, are not only quite a bit bigger, but they were top 10, even top 5 (Arlovski was).

P4P list, IMO and in the ways of the "official" definition of P4P, should look like this:

1. Fedor
2. Anderson
3. Penn/GSP

It all depends on how you look at it when talking about #3, as you could say Penn is not a very big LW, could probably fight at 145, and is beating everyone at 155 and looking amazing, but at the same time GSP has been on a longer win streak, has looked just as great, and beat Penn (even though Penn moved up in weight).

So yeah, place Penn or GSP at #3, depending on how you look at it, but there is no doubt that Fedor is #1 and Anderson is #2.
 
#46 ·
My UFC ranking for P4P would be Silva, Penn, Gsp. Fighting a equal size oponent, thats how I would list them. Bj fights some of the same guys Gsp fights, so thats why I give him the edge.
 
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