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Mir hype

4K views 45 replies 25 participants last post by  Xerxes 
#1 ·
OK, I will admit it; I’m not the biggest Mir fan. I think he’s an entertaining fighter with good jui jitsu, but I don’t understand the blind admiration for this guy. He’s downright hilarious with his trash talking, so that doesn't bother me. I can get over someone’s personality and respect the fighter. I respect him as a fighter, but I don’t understand the extent of the Mir hype. People make him out to be the biggest thing in the HW division. People say that Brock and Cain are overhyped and that Mir is a proven MMA veteran with better skills.

Let’s be honest. What notable victories does Mir have? Lesnar (who people say is overrated), Nog (who was in a weakened state), Kongo (who has notable victories over a shell of CC….???), and Sylvia (who doesn’t stand a chance in today’s UFC HW lineup).

Lesnar – Mir looked awful in both fights against Lesnar. He pulled off a lucky (the stand up when Lesnar was 10 seconds away from ending the fight was BS) sub against an MMA newbie in Lesnar in the first fight. People say that he was tagging Brock in the second fight before the knees, but if you watch the replays he missed every single strike leading up to the short elbow and missed flying knee (which was an act of desperation). Lesnar has dominated 95% of their time in the Octagon.

Nog – I believe this fight is a much different fight if Nog is healthy. Will Mir win the rematch? Possibly, but Nog is better on the ground and is no slouch when it comes to striking. This is a touch matchup for Mir.

Kongo – I will admit that I was surprised at how this fight went. Kongo made one HUGE mistake that ended up costing him the fight. I don’t think that Mir’s standup is superior to Kongo, but Mir made Kongo pay. Hands down, Mir won this fight. You can’t take that away from him. However, Kongo isn’t even a top 10 fighter. Mir was expected to win this fight. Kongo was coming off a loss to Cain.

I believe that Mir will continue to be a force in the HW division, but I don’t see him dominating the division. He has A LOT of trouble with strong wrestlers. I think the fight against Carwin will be a big test for Mir, but I’d be more interested in seeing him fight Cain or JDS. There’s no way Mir wins a standup battle against JDS, and from what I understand, JDS has some good BJJ. If Mir wants to dominate the HW division, he’s going to need to MAJORLY improve his TDD and wrestling skills. The HW division is under attack from large wrestlers, and Mir is going to have to confront this at some point. Otherwise, he will be nothing more than a gatekeeper for the next 3-5 years.

I know I am going to get blasted for this, but it’s my opinion at the moment. I’m not a homer and don’t have it out for Mir, so I could certainly change my opinion if he improves his TDD and wrestling noticeably in his next few fights (which will likely all be against big wrestlers… Carwin, Cain, and Brock). I’m not on board the Mir hype train yet, but I am getting on board the JDS hype train for now.
 
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#2 ·
you know what, i agree with pretty much everything in that post

as good as mir is, i think he is still from the old school of fighters. JDS and guys who have similar attributes (speed, power, technique on the feet, good enough on the ground to stay out of trouble) are the future of the division imo
 
#36 ·
Couldn't disagree more as far as Mir goes. I do agree that Junior and others have a bright future. But Frank was in his early 20s when he started in the UFC and is not yet 30. He is from the old school crowd, but has aged and evolved well with the new talent, and in most cases is still a step ahead of them.

As for the OP. I'm not sure what you're talking about, especially if you are referring to this forum. There are a lot of Mir fans, but as far as blind admiration to the supposed "greatest thing at HW"... I haven't seen that at all.

Frank is an incredibly talented fighter who has proven that he desires to stay at the top and can do so. Something I have not seen from the beloved Fedor. (And yes I know he hasn't lost, but jumping over to Strikeforce is no proving you want to stay at the top)

And one other thing, for the love of GOD! Get off the Nog was dead in that fight BS! It's getting old, Nog has to much honor to make BS excuses, and he doesn't need other people doing it for him.
 
#3 ·
good post, even though i may not agree with everything you wrote.

one thing i will comment on is that you say he needs to change if he is gunna be a force in the hw division(which he kinda already is ) he will need to change. my answer to this is, he is, he is changing almost everything about himself in a somewhat drastic fashion. the thing with mir is that even though he talks allot of crap he is smart he realized the way he was he was going to have trouble with the evolving/de-evolving (however you want to look at it) HW division, so he bulked up drastically in a smart way and has worked on his striking witch has improved allot. honestly with the he needs to work on his takedown defense statement, this i think he should not worry about to much for honestly a fighter can work on takedown defense all he wants but lesner will take them down at will everytime
 
#16 ·
i don't think the heavy emphasis on striking for Mir is the right path. Sure, it won't hurt to be a better striker, but that's not the tool that will help his chances the most against Brock. He needs to work on his wrestling and using the cage to his advantage like Randy did against Brock.

We'll see about his size, but size doesn't equate to functional strength. Brock has insane functional strength, and Mir will never beat him in this department.

I respect your opinion about spending time working on TDD. If that's the case, then he needs to work on his take downs and transitions so he can get dominant positions. IMO, he came into UFC100 underprepared and with the wrong game plan. Yes, he admitted this, but I don't think he'll have the right plan (putting on mass and furthering his striking) going into Mir/Lesnar III.
 
#4 ·
Imo I don't consider Mir to have all that much hype except for the crap he spews from his mouth. Most people just consider him to be a top fighter in the division, which he is.

He will never dominate the division, but he is going to give most of the top fighters at least a run for their money if not beat them. He does have the ability to sink in a sub when he is losing a fight and now with his improving striking and wrestling he is becoming a better all around fighter.
 
#5 ·
He's looked really good since his comeback and I think thats where the hype is stemming from. I've always been a fan of Mir. He's a lot like me when it comes to fights. He's really calm, really cocky and really competitive and is always striving to better himself, not just be content with who he is. Plus I'll always have a soft spot for Jiu-Jistsu fighters, as I am one myself. I like nothing more than fighters saying crap like "I'm going to take his arm home and hang it on my mantle."
 
#6 ·
Repped for getting on the JDS train, you won't regret it. :thumbsup:


Mir has decent power in his hands and strong submissions, but he's got zero wrestling and zero power in his legs. I also think he might be playing into this weight thing WAY too much.
 
#8 ·
I don't buy into this Hype! Mir is a very good fighter, but he won't be champion anymore. All this weight stuff he is doing now just makes him even more slower like he already was. I still consider his standup only average to other HW and Wrestling is non-existent. I have to admit I never thought he would win against Kongo in a striking match and I still think he won't stand a chance in a K-1 match against him.
 
#9 ·
I really don't think Frank Mir's abilities are over hyped as much as his profile is always noticeable to do his self-promoting. I haven't seen anything on this forum or others that argues for Frank Mir being the de facto champion or dominating the division. I think the consensus is that Frank Mir is an elite heavyweight with a big mouth who has the potential to be champion.

I tired of people downplaying his first win over Lesnar. The truth is there are very few people in the division who could have pulled off what he did to Lesnar.
 
#18 · (Edited)
His ego is pretty funny. Watching some of these interviews of his, it wouldn't be surprising if he thought he was the 2nd coming of Jesus.

JDS will realize that size matters soon enough when you have no wrestling base. Mir learned the hard way, the same lesson is coming for JDS except his BJJ isnt as good as Franks and he will be in more trouble on his back then Frank is. Now you got a freak like my boy Cain who has elite wrestling plus is a BJJ world champion. The days of BJJ alone being enough are coming to an end fast, these wrestlers are also bjj guys now so these bjj guys better start learning wrestling or be left behind.

Mirs standup is evovling as we speak, those that continue to ignore this fact will continue to be surprised as Mir continues to outstrike supposedly "better strikers" like Nog and Kongo. I dont think Mirs striking is on a JDS level (frankly, almost nobody in the division is on that level) but it is more then good enough to beat most HWs standing and those he cant likely cant hang on the ground.
I wanted to argue this, but nvm I did my research. Lmao, had no idea he won as a blue belt. Dope.

Had no idea he was a purple belt in BJJ either.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I hope your beloved JDS fights Lesnar. Lesnar would take him down and pound him out. I like JDS too but he doesn't have the tools to beat Lesnar, his only chance would be to knock him out before the fight went to the ground.

And Nog didn't outwrestle Couture... I had to go watch the fight because I couldn't remember this happening and it didn't. There was very little wrestling in that fight. Nog used his great jiu jitsu to sweep Couture in the 2nd and Couture did the same thing in the 3rd. The other times Nog had control of Couture on the ground was after he rocked him and pounced him, not because he wrestled him to the ground.

Using Fedor as an argument isn't fair either. And I am in the camp that thinks Lesnar might actually be able to overwhelm him because of the size advantage.

Edit: And I agree that I don't think Lesnar would be a good match up for Velasquez. But Velasquez would look decent against him and would survive for at least a while because of his wrestling.
 
#28 ·
I will say that a lot of this post is a lot of discrediting BS.

I dont understand why everybody shits on Mir and his wrestling. Sure Brock dominated almost every second in both fights, but outside of that when has Mir been dominated by a wrestler????????

Sure Mir looked bad on the ground vs Brock but then again everybody will look bad vs Brock and his wrestling.
 
#30 ·
Mir is worth the hype. Every fight he looks stronger, leaner, and faster.

In his first fight with Lesnar I think it was his intention to just allow the takedown versus trying to compete with such an accomplished wrestler. With his comfort level from fighting from his back I think he was willing to take what some view as a disadvantage position.

In the second fight I think he was trying to avoid Lesnar's wrestling again with his dramatically improved striking. He was doing very well until he got over-excited and threw the knee. Once Lesnar got the game into a grappling match, Mir couldn't compete with his strength. Mir openly admits this and has worked to be more physically competitive with Lesnar.

He's a huge guy, elite grappler, improving his gameplans, and he's knocking people on their ass. If it was anyone but Mir people would be bear-hugging his nuts.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I used to say "Nog was at his weakest, he would have beat Mir at 100%" too, until I realized how stupid it sounded. No offense to Nog but all he's got going is his submissions. He may be above Mir in BJJ but Mir is close enough that they would probably just nullify each other out, keeping the fight standing. Mir's stand up is far better than Nog's. In the fights Nog has had in the UFC, I think the Couture fight is the only fight where he wasn't completely rocked and everyone knows Couture's biggest weakness has been his striking, so that's probably why. I love Nog but I think Mir would still beat him in the rematch.

As for his win over Lesnar, Mir was getting destroyed. He was lucky the fighter he was facing was very, VERY fresh to MMA and got a lucky submission. With just a little more experience in MMA, Lesnar would have beaten him which was shown in the rematch.

Kongo is considered very good and a win over him is impressive.

That being said, I believe Lesnar is the only threat to Mir in the HW class, except if Cro Cop suddenly became his old self again. All the hype around Mir is true.
 
#35 ·
What hype? Frank mir could be the most hated MMA fighter in the bizz ,, besides kimbo and nate diaz...

All his wins are downplayed lol...

For me, he has already proven not just good groundskills but Incredible ground skills,, i believe better then Big Nogs ground skills..

He is working on the standup which is good,, if he wants to be a huge thread he has to work on his wrestling.!
 
#43 ·
Good post and good points. I've been a Mir fan for a long time and honestly I don't really have a reason why unlike my other favorite fighters like Kid or BJ or Karo. I don't know what it is about Mir but I always find myself rooting for him. I agree that his skills are over-embelleshed by most, but I think Mir has what it takes to be the best, he's just too inconsistent. Maybe eventually he'll live up to his hype without question, but as of right now I do agree he is over-hyped by a good amount of fans.
 
#44 ·
Lesnar – Mir looked awful in both fights against Lesnar. He pulled off a lucky (the stand up when Lesnar was 10 seconds away from ending the fight was BS) sub against an MMA newbie in Lesnar in the first fight. People say that he was tagging Brock in the second fight before the knees, but if you watch the replays he missed every single strike leading up to the short elbow and missed flying knee (which was an act of desperation). Lesnar has dominated 95% of their time in the Octagon.
People say that for a good reason. Brock stated post-fight "I saw tweety bird for a second" which means he was momentarily dazed from that exchange/knee.

He hit me with a knee, and I ain't lying, I saw tweety bird for a second but that was all.
http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...hose-seats-and-I-put-on-a-hell-of-a-show.html


It sounds to me that you're just trying to discredit Frank's wins in a rather biased manner.

Im aware Mir's disliked on this forum but you cant deny that he's a top 5 HW. And he can take that belt from Brock if he works on his TDD and strength (which he is atm).

People say Mir/Big Nog was a fluke but heck, Im not sure I'd pick Nog if they were to fight a 2nd time :dunno:
 
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