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Shamrock vs. Gracie

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#1 ·
i wish i seen this!! i was watchin the play by play on sherdog...they said Gracie took first round, then in second round, Frank lands two knees to Renzo's head while on the ground...and Frank gets dusqualified!! FRANK LOST THE BOUT!! im so happy! but i wish i saw it..
 
#77 ·
mma1357 said:
Exactly.

I just watched the fight again and noticed something very important. Frank had his arm around Renzo's head and was pulling his head towards him, after he would pull Renzo's head he would then move his arm completely out of the way and then knee Renzo in the same spot his arm used to be. He did this twice. He would pull his head, move his arm and then knee Renzo. If Frank didn't know where his knees were landing and was just "fighting" then how did he know to move his arm away from Renzo's head right before his knee would hit Renzo?
you just hit the nail right on the head........frank dirty period,,they should ban his ass......he is a legend in his own mind..........he talks like he invented this shit,,wtf is up with that??? old man gracie was subin guys and frank s father wasnt even born yet for christ sakes......what a ****en tool.........
 
#78 ·
2dmax said:
what do you mean he didnt know where the knees were landing...if you watched the fight shamrock had his hand right along side gracies head,,his knees were hitting right where his hand was...........he knew damn well where his hand was........i hope that loud mouth does fight baroni,,baroni will shut it once and for all......shamrock has no ****en class............
BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Frank's arm was right where the knees landed. he pulled his arm away when he struck with the knees. Intentional knees to the head. i think Frank got caught in the moment and threw the illegal knees not thinking about the rules. he was out of his gameplan, renzo was doing his thing, not dominating but winning both rounds. I've been bashing Frank since the fight last nite really hard. Mainly because what he said afterwards, not the fight itself. He should've been a man about things and apologized for the illegal knees, then and only then should he have been hyping the re-match, after it all was said and done. but disrespecting the sport by unacknowledging the rules? come one frank....like someone said in this or an earlier thread we all now know why Ken and your adopted father (the one that saved him from a life of failure and ultimately maybe prison) has disassociated himself from you for ten years. Least Ken acknowledged to Tito after there third fight that they 'made alot of money together'. ddn't run his mouth like a punk b*tch. hope someones punches your wife in the ovaries frank :mad:
 
#79 ·
Ghizman said:
BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Frank's arm was right where the knees landed. he pulled his arm away when he struck with the knees. Intentional knees to the head. i think Frank got caught in the moment and threw the illegal knees not thinking about the rules. he was out of his gameplan, renzo was doing his thing, not dominating but winning both rounds. I've been bashing Frank since the fight last nite really hard. Mainly because what he said afterwards, not the fight itself. He should've been a man about things and apologized for the illegal knees, then and only then should he have been hyping the re-match, after it all was said and done. but disrespecting the sport by unacknowledging the rules? come one frank....like someone said in this or an earlier thread we all now know why Ken and your adopted father (the one that saved him from a life of failure and ultimately maybe prison) has disassociated himself from you for ten years. Least Ken acknowledged to Tito after there third fight that they 'made alot of money together'. ddn't run his mouth like a punk b*tch. hope someones punches your wife in the ovaries frank :mad:
yeah, her comment right at the end really boiled my balls!!!
 
#81 ·
TKOSPIKE said:
love him or hate him thats frank shamrock for ya. i can see why him and tito are really good friends. lol :laugh: :D
i just don't see how real fans of the sport, the ones who respect the fighters and the sport for it's artistry and respect, can think Frank is anything more than a loudmouth piece of trash! just because he's good doesn't mean he has free reign to act like a jackass and bring the sport to the level of boxing!
 
#83 ·
Wow... This is an amusing thread. I watched the fight and here are my thoughts:

1) If you thought Renzo was doin' the Lay 'n' Pray, then you've never spent too much time on the gruond with anyone who knows what they're doing. It wasn't like Renzo took Frank down, sat in his full gaurd with his head buried in this chest hoping not to get hit. He took him down and would immediately transition to half-guard and then out to side mount. He was working. If you can't see that, get on the mat with someone who knows what they're doing, not your undersized cousins or siblings, and definitely not just your drunk buddies.

2) I don't know what to think about that warning timer. I was watching the fight, and Herb Dean stands them up while Renzo has moved to KoB. The crowd didn't even start booing at that point. Do you know how significant that is considering the nature of the Stateside audience? Hell, even the announcers were saying that Frank was just holding on (in their exact words "stalling) waiting for the warning to go off and get reset to their feet. I don't know on what side of the fence you are on as far as ground work goes, but they were definitely being stood up way too early.

3) When things were standing, Frank was scoring with strikes. But, this ain't boxing and the clinch (and following takedown) was par for the course. I was expecting a little more on Frank's end to keep it on his side of the game.

4) The knees were being thrown and hitting exactly where Frank wanted them to hit. He knew where Renzo's head was, and if you don't believe me get someone to pull side mount on you, close your eyes and tell me if you can't figure out their skull from their arsehole. The knees were fully intentional, and as the rules go they were foul shots.

5) Did it look to me like Renzo is hamming it up after Herb stops for the fouls? To be fair: Yes, completely. The knees, although fouls, were not that hard. He didn't have the room to fully extend his leg because of the fence, and Renzo's position didn't allow Frank to connect with his knee cap (more the top of his thigh). At that point, it has to be pointed out why Frank was DQ'd. Frank was DQ'd was because Renzo did not continue after given the time to recuperate after the foul. If he would have gotten back into the fight, then the fight would have went to a finish. BTW - If the fighter (or anyone) says to an EMT that their neck/head is hurting, that EMT will neckbrace them to fully protect them from further injury and to fully protect themselves from a lawsuit.

All in all... That fight was definitely disappointing. Frank was confident on his feet and was scoring the significant shots, but Renzo was taking him down and controlling him at will. I was hoping that Frank would at least be able to pull gaurd, but he couldn't. I would have called it a draw up until the foul. After the foul, everything about this fight went down the toilet faster than last night's fried chicken and okra. No one was "clearly" winning in this fight, and we all got a finish that no one wanted.

But, please for the love of what you consider sacred, please don't give us a rematch. I'd sooner have bamboo shoved up under my finger nails than to have to witness something like this again. Shame on both Frank and Renzo for that.
 
#84 ·
there are 2 things very disapointing in this fight.

Herb gave notice to Frank after the 1st shot to the back of the neck that he shouldn't do that.. and then Frank did it again, so that deserves the DQ jsut for that!!

Second, Renzo said that he was willing to take this fight to a new level.. bla bla bla, this didn't look like a new level to me, it actually looked like a liar... he knows he was fine, and could have continued, but as the manager of Gracie said, "this is why we have rules, if we didn't have them we would have hair pulling and BITING!!!" thats what he said!!! WHAT?!?!

So again, theres 2 sides to this coin, Frank disrepected the Refs warning, and did what he did almost right after he was warned, but Gracie LOOKED at the ref and put his had up ... like saying "common ref hes not allowed to do this".. and then put his hand back down and then a split second later he layed back not wanting to continue. So Frank came to fight, and Renzo came for the money.

And BOTH lost their pride of the families!! hahah
 
#85 ·
I really dislike herb dean. I never saw the fight but all you guys are telling that it was an accident. I agree with the person that said that Herb doesn't like the shamrocks becasue of this and tito vs ken herb stopped it after tito hit him with 3 elbows and ken got up and was like " What the HANK"
 
#86 ·
Kirkardo said:
I really dislike herb dean. I never saw the fight but all you guys are telling that it was an accident. I agree with the person that said that Herb doesn't like the shamrocks becasue of this and tito vs ken herb stopped it after tito hit him with 3 elbows and ken got up and was like " What the HANK"
first off, "all us guys" aren't saying it was an accident. it clearly wasn't, not by a long shot. Plus, knowing Frank, you certainly know it wasn't. hell, it was probably his idea of a publicity stunt to make their next fight that much more hyped. thirdly, herb dean did a great job with the decision to disqualify Shamrock. he warned the jerk once about the exact same thing. and, if you haven't watched the fight, you have no right to comment on it because you don't know what happened. you're forming an opinion off of hearsay and other people's opinions. anyone who has watched MMA for more than a month knows what went down and nobody is really debating it. the only peole who are, have no idea what they're talking about!
 
#88 ·
JawShattera said:
it was herbs fault for not interupting the fight after the first illegal knee




herb dean is a stinker
Hear we go again with the Herb Dean bashing. If this was John McCarthy you people would be kissing his feet and praising what a wonderful job he did.

It's simple. Herb warned Frank about the knee's but Suck a$$ decided to ignore him. Just because Frank is an idiot doesn't mean Herb has to hold his hand all three rounds.
 
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#89 ·
JawShattera said:
it was herbs fault for not interupting the fight after the first illegal knee




herb dean is a stinker
not at all... you don't just interrupt the fight at the first sing of something, because often, there are legitimate accidents and mistakes, and immidietly the fighter appologizes, and the fight goes on... but that wasn't the case here, Frank did it again and Herb couldn't give him the benefit of the doubt any longer. it was obvious what was going on.
 
#90 ·
I think Herb is one of the best refs in the game. The guy is A+. Look at Sylvia vs Mir, everyone booed him and then they showed the replay and it turns out he was right. Shamrock/Ortiz 2, everyone booed him and then Shamrock/Ortiz 3 showed everyone he was right.

Herb warned Frank and then Frank did it again and so Herb made the right decision.
 
#91 ·
daman5 said:
there are 2 things very disapointing in this fight.

Herb gave notice to Frank after the 1st shot to the back of the neck that he shouldn't do that.. and then Frank did it again, so that deserves the DQ jsut for that!!

Second, Renzo said that he was willing to take this fight to a new level.. bla bla bla, this didn't look like a new level to me, it actually looked like a liar... he knows he was fine, and could have continued, but as the manager of Gracie said, "this is why we have rules, if we didn't have them we would have hair pulling and BITING!!!" thats what he said!!! WHAT?!?!

So again, theres 2 sides to this coin, Frank disrepected the Refs warning, and did what he did almost right after he was warned, but Gracie LOOKED at the ref and put his had up ... like saying "common ref hes not allowed to do this".. and then put his hand back down and then a split second later he layed back not wanting to continue. So Frank came to fight, and Renzo came for the money.

And BOTH lost their pride of the families!! hahah
After Frank hits Renzo on the back of his head, you can hear Renzo say "F*ck, man?". Frank keeps on doing it.

Renzo is a crazy dude, who happens to be nice as all hell. Renzo kicked Marquardt in the face after Marquardt hit Almeida. Then, Renzo goes over and is all nicey nice to Nate. Renzo rules.

YouTube - Renzo Gracie kicks Marquardt in the face
 
#92 ·
mmaforum4life said:
I think Herb is one of the best refs in the game. The guy is A+. Look at Sylvia vs Mir, everyone booed him and then they showed the replay and it turns out he was right. Shamrock/Ortiz 2, everyone booed him and then Shamrock/Ortiz 3 showed everyone he was right.

Herb warned Frank and then Frank did it again and so Herb made the right decision.
yessir! people hate the guy, but he just happens to end up in the fights that have strange outcomes or odd happenstances. the guy wouldn't be the number 2 ref around and ref so many fights if he wasn't good. people just need to get their head's out of their poopshoots!
 
#93 ·
pt447 said:
yessir! people hate the guy, but he just happens to end up in the fights that have strange outcomes or odd happenstances. the guy wouldn't be the number 2 ref around and ref so many fights if he wasn't good. people just need to get their head's out of their poopshoots!
lol i know this is gonna piss u off when i say this..but frank shamrock is still one of my favorite fighters. haha sorry man:D (please dont get on my case :p )
 
#94 ·
the problem was not the the knee was from the bottom but that it was to the back of the head, this is potentially devastating and can cause permanent damage. This and the fact that frank was pushing his knees off of the fence.

I say this as objectively as I can because I train BJJ under one of Renzo's students.
 
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#95 ·
not only were the knees off the back and to the back of the head, but my understanding is that frank also pushed them off of the fence which i guess is illegal as well. cannot stand frank shamrock and he got what he deserved in this fight.

I try to stay as objective as I can because I train under one of renzo's students
 
#98 ·
Hey I read some post on sherdog like

"knee wasn't hard"
"renzo was faking it"

Renzo was not faking. If you seen the second knee then Renzo got knocked out from the illegal knee and his head hit the mat. Frank loaded up the knee and it looked like a very powerful shot.

Renzo was controling the the fight. Renzo was impressive. Frank acted like most shamrocks with no class instead of apologizing.
 
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