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Machida vs Dana - Who's the Schmuck?

3K views 40 replies 24 participants last post by  Calminian 
#1 ·
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ben_fowlkes/07/15/machida-ufc-133/index.html?sct=mma_t11_a0

Here's a hypothetical question to prompt an uncomfortable amount of soul-searching: say your boss comes to you with an offer for a promotion that initially sounds good, but upon closer inspection it seems like it might not be the best deal for you. Not enough money for the responsibility. Say the more you think about it, the worse the deal sounds. The question is: how much of a raise would it take to make a bad idea seem like a good one?

Former UFC light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida confronted a question along those lines this week when UFC president Dana White came to him with an offer to step in as a late-notice injury replacement against Rashad Evans at UFC 133. The fight was a little over three weeks away when Machida got the call, and since no one trains especially hard the week of the fight, that meant only two weeks of real preparation time.

Machida told Sherdog.com that he initially thought it sounded doable, but then White wanted him to immediately leave Brazil for the U.S. to do his training camp on American soil, and the more he considered the prospect, the more it sounded like a situation where he had more to lose than gain.

After all, Machida already owns a win over Evans, so how much would he benefit from another one? And while Machida's been hanging out on the beach awaiting a fight offer, Evans has been in the gym for a full training camp, preparing diligently for his big comeback fight. Once you start tallying it all up, there seem to be more marks in Evans' column than in Machida's.

But rather than go all Nancy Reagan on it and Just Say No, Machida seems to have tried for a compromise. Sure, he'd fight Evans, he told the UFC, but they'd have to make it worth his while. They'd have to pay him like they pay his countryman, middleweight champion Anderson Silva.

If you're having this conversation with White, here's where the stream of expletives is likely to begin. Not only did White opt not to pay Machida "Anderson Silva money" to take the fight, but also immediately turned around and used the request against him.

White gathered reporters on a media conference call on Thursday to announce that, yes, Tito Ortiz had agreed to take the fight (without asking for a pay raise, White noted), but also that Machida had asked for more than the UFC felt he was worth. Other fighters like Chris Leben and Chael Sonnen were willing to step up and fight out of their weight classes to do the UFC a solid, White pointed out, but Machida was trying to hold the company up for more cash.

It's the PR equivalent of pointing at someone in public and saying in a loud voice, "Can you believe this freaking guy?" If it's not an outright attempt to burn Machida in the press, it's at least an attempt to scorch him a little.

As much as White doesn't care for fighters and their management talking about contract details or salary figures to the media, he has no problem doing it when it suits his needs. Putting Machida on blast for holding his hand out not only serves the purpose of retribution against a fighter who had the temerity to say no, but also sends a message to every other man on the roster that private negotiations need only stay private for as long as the UFC is happy with them.

The end result is that Machida comes away looking like the bad guy -- or worse, a fighter out of touch with the reality of his own worth -- while Ortiz is suddenly the hero in the white hat.

The funny part is that when you think about it, Machida's actions seem totally reasonable. Stepping in on a couple weeks' notice to fight a guy he already beat is not a good deal for him. If he wins, so what? If he loses, his stock falls big time. It's not so absurd for him to be asked to be compensated for assuming that risk.

Sure, you can argue over the dollar amount. Maybe instead of Anderson Silva money, he should have asked for "Rampage" Jackson money or, even better, Tito Ortiz money. But that's not the point.

The point is if the UFC is asking Machida to act against his own best interests by taking a short-notice fight with very little for him to gain, shouldn't it offer him something special to account for the special circumstances?

And no, telling him that if he wins, he'll be "in the mix" for a title shot doesn't count. Just ask Evans, who was the number one contender this time last year and is still not guaranteed the next title shot, even with a win at UFC 133. The UFC has failed to keep that promise too often for it to be sufficiently motivating, which leaves guaranteed money as the next most reasonable carrot to dangle in the face of an ambivalent fighter.

The UFC loves to talk about how it "takes care of" the fighters who take care of it, and that's fine. Giving out free money is always going to make you popular in the short-term. But if that's how you reward fighters who pitch in and help out when the UFC needs it, what's so wrong about them asking their employer to put it in writing beforehand?

Theoretically, at least, what Machida did makes perfect sense. He asked for special compensation under special circumstances. Not only did he not get it, he got a UFC smackdown in the press -- and, as a result, in the court of public opinion -- just for asking. That's a lesson dearly purchased for Machida, and a warning shot likely heard loud and clear throughout the ranks.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...7/15/machida-ufc-133/index.html#ixzz1SSxXte4f

Personally I think Dana's just being a real schmuck about this. You don't ask or expect top 3 guys in a weight class to step in on super short notice. The guys who jump in for these things are the guys who are looking for a chance to vault over a number of contenders and land themselves in a positive light within the weight class. Machida is a top 3 guy and has already beatn Evans once, so what would the payoff be for him in this scenario?
Why didn't Shogun jump in here? Why not Bader?

Baahh!:confused02:
 
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#2 ·
Personally I think Dana is the schmuck in all of this. Dana is wanting these guys to fight "for the love of the game" and yet he plays hardball as a businessman. I agree that it was a little flip-floppy for Machida to agree and then change his requirements, but regardless I think his request was reasonable. Lyoto had a ton to risk by taking the fight ill-prepared. Dana is overreacting in my opinion.
 
#3 ·
Dana has a God complex and it is quite known that he treats his fighters like they are expendables. He is a tool.
 
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#4 ·
Don't know how Dana can be the schmuck in this situation. Machida tells Dana that he will take the fight, no problem. He calls back later or the next day saying he can't do the fight unless he gets paid Anderson Silva money and you want to tell me that Dana is the schmuck in this?

If Machida declined the fight the first time without creating all this drama later on, who knows but as the situation is. Dana has every right to be mad at Machida.
 
#5 ·
Machida, to me, had valid reasons for not taking the fight. The timeframe and cost were both major obstacles for Machida. Having to move his camp to America, with less than 3 weeks to prerpare for a fight. Dana insisted that he be in the US training for the fight.

And all the talk about Machida first saying yes, then no. I'm not 100% convinced. Would Machida really blindly say yes to a fight without negotiating the pay first? If he did, then he would of signed a contract. Nothing was signed.
 
#7 ·
I think Machida comes off looking like a schmuck. I'll start off by saying that DW's antics didn't help him. But when it comes down to it I see it very simply as this:

1) Machida can take the fight
2) Machida can't take the fight

I can understand that it was too short notice to accept the fight. I can understand that he isn't in shape, may not put on the best performance, etc. I can accept all of this.

What I can understand/accept is how for the right amount of money you can be right. It's not like with an extra $100K his cardio will be any better. This is why at the end of the day Machida asking for more money doesn't make sense. He has a contract, he was offered the fight, not told he HAD to take it, he is a fighter in the UFC, and most of all he is a fighter who claims to by looking for a title shot again. All of these reasons say that his request was idiotic.

And as I have said previously, we all know DW would have made it worth his while win or lose, I think DW took it as an insult that Machida asked for it.
 
#8 ·
On one hand the writer brings up a number of excellent points. On the other hand in my eyes Machida is already one of the top five overpaid fighters in the UFC. He's been bringing in six figures since the Thiago Silva fight for christ sake. It also doesn't take a genius to realize that the UFC is cutting costs and dumping contracts so asking for more money is very schmuck like. Machida really hasn't accomplished that much in the sport, I don't believe he has this massive fan base and he doesn't hype fights up so getting paid 5 times as much a the BW champion just seems messed up to me.
 
#10 ·
Neither really.

Both are acting in their own best interest.

Dana going all out in the press is nothing new. Remember when he was going to cut *Insert random fighter name*, but then *Random Fighter* wins big and gets a pay raise?

Lyoto just better win the next fight he accepts.
 
#13 ·
I can see why Machida didn't take the fight. It was short notice, little payoff if he won. If he lost he could've rationally been close to being cut by the UFC. But to say you would take the fight then ask for more money, that's a schmuck move! I've never been a Machida fan though, lets hope he gets Shogun 3 next!
 
#23 ·
Neither is a shmuck...or both of them are.

Both were looking out for their own interest. Nothing new here.

One tried to seel his services for as much as possible (Machida), why the other one tried to make sure the business he runs will put in the best product possible for his clients, while keeping the costs as low as possible. (Dana).

From a business perspective this is very normal.

From a fan's perspective, Machida looks like he let the sport (he loves) down a bit.

I can see why Machida didn't take the fight. It was short notice, little payoff if he won.
It would have earned him a title shot most likely - imo. Beating the no. 1 contender would normally make you the no. 1 contender.

The only other fighter who could have made a claim for a title shot would have been Forrest - and only if he beats Shogun.

If he lost he could've rationally been close to being cut by the UFC. But to say you would take the fight then ask for more money, that's a schmuck move! I've never been a Machida fan though, lets hope he gets Shogun 3 next!
And...the UFC doesn't cut fighters who take fights on short notice. They usually get rewarded with a contract, for at least one more fight. And i'm talking about lower tier fighters.

Even with a loss against Evans - in a No. 1 contender's fight - Machida would have been miles away from being cut.

In fact, i believe the chances of him getting cut in the future have increased a lot after declining to fight Evans.

And he's gonna have a harder time climbing up the rankings now imo.
 
#14 ·
Machida only comes off as a schmuck if you ignore all the reasons he had to not take that fight under the terms Dana was offering. As dude said a few posts back, both are acting in their own best interests so I don't see why there's any drama.
 
#16 · (Edited)
:)

Not exactly sure of all the details here. Did Lyoto actually agree to take the fight, then call back to request more money?

If so, I can see why Dana would be less than happy.

However, there is still such a thing as taking the high road.
What possible good can come out of publicly vilifying one of your organization's top fighters?

Zip.

Lyoto's rep' takes a hit; Dana ends up looking like a cry-baby...again; the UFC ends up looking bush-league.

Everyone loses.

*Edited to add: How can I have a "little shameless behaviour in my past"? This is my first post... :)
 
#18 ·
I wouldn't say Machida had nothing to gain from this, the fight was a number one contender spot basically...if Machida beat Rashad he'd be garaunteed a title shot. At the same time Rashad hasn't fought in over a year too...I don't know how much Machida gets paid, but didn't Tito just get paid 250k for his fight against Bader? Silva makes around 200k per fight, really doesn't make much sense to me right now lol
 
#19 ·
Tito got paid around 450k for his fight with Bader. Anderson Silva takes in a % of the PPV revenue.

Machida wins he is possibly 1 or 2 fights away from a title shot. Machida loses?? In his last 4 fights he loses 3 and has 1 win over a 48 year old man. It was a career risk he didnt want to take on short notice. Oh and lets not forget, he loses to Rashad Evans then people will believe Lyoto Machida has lost "it".
 
#22 ·
Dana doesn't get his way, so he goes on another tirade. Pretty standard. Then Machida has to justify it which looks bad in itself, one should never feel the need to justify but Dana puts them in this position.

Dana needs to lay off the ego pills for a while. One day one of these fighters is going to bust him up good and proper and by god that will be a funny day!
 
#27 ·
machidas a fraud, he is supposed to be some kind of respectful samurai warrior which usually means fight anywhere anytime, most people would jump at the fight especially one agains tthe no.1 contender, to top it all off he got paid 200k to show at 129 and 129k for his bonus not counting back room money and sponsors. edgar and condit get paid a lot less and are a lot more valuable fighters yet they would take any fight in a heartbeat jim miller too.
 
#36 ·
Can't we say both?

Dana is the bigger jerk here I think, because he is showcasing his barefaced hypocrisy again. Dana has jumped all over fighters for 'negotiating through the media' and making salary demands public. The instant he feels its to his benefit though, he turns around and starts broadcasting Machidas negotiating position, most of which is pretty reasonable, so Dana: liar, hypocrite. (Not that this is news to anyone)

Machida demands were mostly reasonable, 3 weeks is really not enough time if you haven't fought recently, but ultimately a contract is a contract. Overall I say Dana is the bigger douche though.
 
#37 ·
What I find interesting about the situation is that Machida put a premium on taking this fight short notice- and it seems pretty clear part of that pricetag was a guaranteed title shot if he won (that is, written into this fight contract).

Dana's penchant for screwing guys out of "promised" title shots is now biting him in the azz, IMO.

.
 
#38 ·
The more I think about this, the less I have a problem with Machida.
I think Dana could have also just said that Machida and UFC could not come to an agreement,he is only trying to embarrass Machida with that comment. Im not a big Machida fan but Dana needs to grow up and learn how to be a professional, Dana needs to evolve with the sport just like the fighters. imo
 
#39 ·
Dana by far is the shmuck. He talked about how Machida agreed then demanded "Anderson Silva money" to take the fight. What he doesn't state is the important part:

Machida was probably not getting a title shot off the fight, at least thats what the UFC told him. He was told by his manager he wasn't going to have the fight, so he went on vacation with his family. He was then told once he was already on vacation that he could still have the fight. He was also told he had to train for it in the US and none of his training partners had Visas to come to the US. THAT was why he acted for more money, because he would have to 1. Eat the cost of his vacation. 2. Train in another country. 3. Take the fight on 3 weeks notice. 4. Try his best to get his training partners and coaching staff Visas real quick (almost impossible to get it done faster than normal).

If I was him I would have asked for more money too. Those are asinine demands for a fighter taking a fight on short notice.
 
#40 ·
Great post, all that it´s true and so blatantly obvious that only haters don't see it that way!


Guys are discussing who's the schumck but the real question here is:
Why doesn't the UFC gives better offers to fighters asked to fight on short notice by themselves?

One word... monopoly.
 
#41 ·
Who's the Schmuck?

No sure, just bummed Machida didn't get the fight. He would have crushed Evans again. No way possible Evans is taking him down, no way possible Evans is standing with him. Machida would then be the #1 contender and Jones' next opponent.

Frankly, I think Dana knew this, and was happy that Machida gave him an out.
 
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