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Commentary: UFC Offers Injury Insurance / UFC fighters say low pay simply brutal...

2K views 13 replies 12 participants last post by  No_Mercy 
#1 ·
So all these injuries occurring got me thinking about what's going on behind the scenes. For the most part it's pretty straight forward. Got a broken hand, can't fight, bad back can't wrestle, injured eye...no vision...so you're out for a while, etc...etc. All valid reasons. But it hasn't stopped fighters from fighting injured in the past. So I dug up this article on health insurance.

http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-...46-ufc-to-offer-injury-insurance-for-fighters

Article is dated earlier this year, but I think it's a very fascinating read especially the excerpts from "fighter X."

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/UFCpay/ufc-fighters-say-low-pay-most-painful-hit-all

"Their business (UFC) practices are hardcore and cut-throat. We're paid like entertainers when we should be paid like athletes. They want us hungry. They want us to be poor … so they have more control over us.

Just like in boxing, 10 to 15 years from now, just like you see a lot of old, broke boxers, you're going to see a lot of old broke MMA fighters."

My conclusion without writing an essay is that fighters are simply taking advantage of the injury insurance (rightfully so) and protecting their interests. Why fight and potentially lose everything. I am pro Zuffa as a business owner myself, but I feel the plight of the fighters for sure!
 
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#5 ·
Even if the UFC paid every fighter 10 million dollars per fight, some fighters would still make poor financial decisions and end up broke. Some people are just stupid and will never learn from other people's mistakes. That's life.

There are stupid kids, right now, forcing themselves to get accustomed to smoking cigarettes. There are stupid people, RIGHT NOW, trying crack or heroin for the first time.
 
#6 ·
The higher end of the roster will never be broke, the stars of the UFC can moan about pay all they want but they have a cheek. I've seen the primetime specials of there big mansions, and there fancy car's and big lifestyles. Yeah sure the tail end arnt paid that well, but that's like that in every sport. Fire men, police officers, paramedics they all risk there life's in there jobs aswell but there not millionaires.
 
#7 ·
Its like this if the UFC only had a few events a year and paid out big for those then half of the fighters would be fighting in low venues never to be heard from or given the chance to be seen. Yes it would be nice if they could all be rich but the sport isnt in a position to make everyone rich just for participating. Taking care of health insurance is a big plus now and taking advantage of it is absolutely their choice. But remember out of sight out of mind and that could effect their next contract.

This is an article from last year comparing Boxing payouts and MMA (UFC).
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/15/2053137/examining-pay-structure-in-boxing-and-mma

In the comments of the earlier "Is the UFC's Purchase of Strikeforce Bad for the Fighters?" article by Jonathan Snowden, a discussion started on the relative pay structure of MMA and boxing. The main point that some seemed to harp on was that undercard fighters on boxing cards fight for "peanuts." As I promised I would do in those comments I contacted the Nevada State Athletic Commission to get the full pay rundown for the six pro boxing events in the state so far in 2011.

This is going to be "numbers heavy" as we go through the cards and look at some of the details. The card disbursement is interesting as we see ESPN 2, HBO, Showtime, PPV and Fox Sports Net events all covered:

January 7 - ESPN 2 Friday Night Fights

Mauricio Herrera ($8,500) UD-12 Ruslan Provodnikov ($10,000)
Demetrius Andrade ($8,000) UD-8 Albert Herrera ($6,500)
Lonnie Smith ($800) KO-1 Jose Gomez ($1,800)
Harry Namauu ($2,000) UD-6 Manuel Otero ($1,500)
Richard Contreras ($1,200) KO-1 Juan Tepoz ($1,200)
Oscar Andrade ($1,200) UD-4 Deth'Marcus Hall ($1,200)
Jesus Gutierrez ($1,200) NC Franky Martinez ($1,200)

Total Payouts: $46,300

This was a small televised show and the top two fights had decent pay. Lonnie Smith stands out as a particularly low payout. He was a local fighter with an 11-2 record facing a guy in Gomez who was 3-4 entering the night. That's simply filling out the card. A fight like Andrade/Hall was two guys over 25 years old both only 3-4 fights into their career so it's hard to say they should have been raking in big bucks for their apperance.



January 22 - Top Rank Live on Fox Sports Net

Diego Magdaleno ($8,500) TKO-5 Marcos Leonardo Jimenez ($6,000)
Robert Marroquin ($7,500) TKO-4 Eduardo Arcos ($6,000)
Jose Benavidez ($4,000) UD-6 Fernando Rodriguez ($3,000)
Julio Cesar Dos Santos ($2,500) RTD-5 Valente Tinajero ($2,500)
Abraham Han ($2,000) TKO-2 Orphius Waite ($3,000)
Anthony Lenk ($3,000) UD-6 Tyler Pogline ($2,000)
Jesse Magdaleno ($2,500) TKO-3 Cain Garcia ($1,500)

Total Payout: $54,000

Low man on the payday totem pole was Cain Garcia. Garcia was 0-1 heading into the bout and facing a guy in Magdaleno who was 1-0. I want to make it clear that while it's easy to say "no one should make $1,500 for a fight" the reality is, making $1,500 when you're a career 0-1 ain't a bad gig.

February 19 - HBO World Championship Boxing

Nonito Donaire ($350,000) TKO-2 Fernando Montiel ($250,000)
Mike Jones ($75,000) UD-12 Jesus Soto Karass ($75,000)
Mark Jason Melligen ($10,000) UD-10 Gabriel Martinez ($6,000)
Mickey Bey Jr. ($8,000) MD-8 Jose Hernandez ($6,000)
Mike Alvarado ($20,000) RTD-4 Dean Harrison ($8,000)
Yordenis Ugas ($3,000) UD-6 Carlos Musquez ($2,500)
Rodrigo Garcia ($5,000) UD-4 Gerald Jordan ($3,500)
Ignacio Garcia ($2,200) MD-4 Armando Dorantes ($2,800)

Total Payout: $827,000

Low man this time was Ignacio Garcia. Garcia was a career 3-3 while his opponent was 8-2 but had never beaten an opponent who entered the night with a winning record. While the usefulness of the bottom of the undercard on a show like this is something it is more than fair to question, I don't see anything that sticks out as unfair pay.

February 26 - Showtime Championship Boxing

Brandon Rios ($125,000) TKO-10 Miguel Acosta ($125,000)
Robert Marroquin ($7,500) UD-8 Gilberto Sanchez Leon ($6,750)
Anthony Lenk ($3,500) TKO-6 Terry Buterbaugh ($2,500)
Andy Ruiz Jr. ($3,000) UD-6 Alvaro Morales ($2,500)
Mike Lee ($5,000) TKO-1 Pablo Gomez ($1,500)
Jesse Magdaleno ($2,500) TKO-1 Jamie Gutierrez ($1,500)
Hiromitsu Miura ($600) TKO-1 Ramiro Bueno Jr. ($1,500)
Aaron Garcia ($5,000) MD-4 Alejandro Lopez ($4,000)

Total Payout: $297,350

This is a weird card thanks to it being a split show on Showtime. Rios/Acosta was the main event and the co-main event was a bout out in Nebraska. This accounts for the huge drop in pay from the main event. Miura only made $600 but if we've learned anything about foreign fighters it's to never trust the reported payout. The $1,500 payouts belong to guys like the now 1-3-1 Pablo Gomez, 3-5 Jamie Gutierrez and 1-2 Ramiro (no) Bueno.

March 12 - Showtime PPV

Miguel Cotto ($1,000,000) TKO-12 Ricardo Mayorga ($50,000)
Miguel Vazquez ($150,000) UD-12 Leonardo Zappavigna ($65,000)
Pawel Wolak ($75,000) RTD-6 Yuri Foreman ($100,000)
Matt Korobov ($10,000) TKO-1 Michael Walker ($7,000)
Juan Gonzalez ($3,500) TKO-1 Jeremy McLaurin ($4,500)
Eric Molina ($8,000) TKO-6 Joseph Rabotte ($4,000)
Jesus Rojas ($3,000) UD-6 Isaac Hidalgo ($3,000)
Tommy Zbikowski ($50,000) TKO-1 Richard Bryant ($1,500)

Total Payout: $1,534,500

Tommy Zbikowski was a Notre Dame safety and now plays for the Baltimore Ravens, this was his second pro bout and was clearly there for the "celebrity factor" while Richard Bryant was there because he was a 1-2 guy who was likely to go down early. Other than that there isn't anything I would say that sticks out as shocking. Rojas is a minor prospect (17-1) who appears to be on the "beat guys with bad records" path to an eventual undeserved shot at a minor title. Mayorga got paid much less than Cotto but is rumored to have received a percentage of PPV sales to offset that.

Now, let's look at UFC 126 (also held in Nevada so we know methods of reporting pay are the same):

February 5 - UFC 126 PPV

Anderson Silva: $200,000 (includes no win bonus) def. Vitor Belfort: $275,000
Forrest Griffin: $275,000 ($150,000 win bonus) def. Rich Franklin: $75,000
Jon Jones: $140,000 ($70,000 win bonus) def. Ryan Bader: $20,000
Jake Ellenberger: $32,000 ($16,000 win bonus) def. Carlos Eduardo Rocha: $8,000
Miguel Torres: $56,000 ($28,000 win bonus) def. Antonio Banuelos: $9,000
Donald Cerrone: $36,000 ($18,000 win bonus) def. Paul Kelly: $19,000
Chad Mendes: $19,000 ($9,500 win bonus) def. Michihiro Omigawa: $8,000
Demetrious Johnson: $10,000 ($5,000 win bonus) def. Norifumi Yamamoto: $15,000
Paul Taylor: $36,000 ($18,000 win bonus) def. Gabe Ruediger: $8,000
Kyle Kingsbury: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus) def. Ricardo Romero: $10,000
Mike Pierce: $28,000 ($14,000 win bonus) def. Kenny Robertson: $6,000

Total Payout: $1,305,000 + 300,000 reported bonuses = $1,605,000

The takeaway here is that clearly the drop off in pay from the top of the card to the untelevised undercard for boxing is substantial but no one seems to be getting paid significantly less than they deserve. The pay disparity is based solely on the lower quality undercards than you find in the UFC. Obviously, these higher quality undercards are a great thing for MMA fans and the UFC has done a wonderful job of making undercards matter. But that is also out of necessity to get fighters under contract the fights they need without running hundreds of shows.

Still, looking at a complete card rundown should put an end to the idea that fighters on the low end of these boxing cards are getting a fifty dollar bill and a handshake.
 
#8 ·
If in 10-15 years we see a bunch of broke old MMA fighters it will be for the same reason we see a bunch of broke old NFL players, or NBA players, etc. People who make bad decisions with their money. If you get into MMA with the idea of making 10M a fight, you are in the wrong business. MMA is still in it's childhood and while there are millionaires being made, most won't make it to that level, and they shouldn't. The base pay will go up, but fighting two to three times a year on an undercard, going 1-2 or 2-1 in boring decision fights should not make you wealthy.

The long and short of it, you sign the contract and know what you are getting into. Plus we know from countless sources that the UFC pays a lot more money than their contract stipulates. So I don't feel bad for anyone over money woes.
 
#9 ·
Can't remember the source, was either mma show or mma hour. In an interview talking about fighter pay, the individual talked about how a boxer starting their big-time pro career can get paid as little as $500 IF they win, but (for the most part) an up and coming UFC fighter making their debut is almost guaranteed $6,000 just to fight.


If you look at the distribution of money in a UFC card compared to a boxing card, the UFC is a lot less top-heavy than the boxers. Not everyone can make Mayweather money.
 
#11 ·
IMO, the UFC fighters are paid appropriately.
An entry level guy who makes it to the UFC will earn $6k-$8k per fight. If he fights 4 times per year, he could be grossing $32k/year. That's not great money, but it's all about perpective.
I mean, I was just watched the season finale of Most Dangerous Catch (or whatever it's called :)).
Those dudes are fishing for crab on the Bering Sea for days on end without sleep, in miserable/freezing/wet conditions, doing partically the most dangerous job in the world... and end up grossing around the same amount as that entry level fighter.
I don't know for sure, but I doubt they get danger pay, etc.

But in terms of the OP's point, I agree; the fighters could very well just be saying to themselves that they might as well take advantage of the coverage, and that could possibily explain what seems to be a higher-than-normal number of injury-related fight changes.

Of course, if that is the case, then I'm not sure how sound that reasoning is- specifically in a profession that rewards getting your brand out there almost as much as actually winning fights.
 
#10 ·
The term "Boxing Money" is over-used, Boxing Money isn't the same as "Pacqiuao/Mayweather Money"

Looking at that card that was posted, Anderson likely made millions for that Vitor fight, it did a great buyrate and was a big deal in Brazil, Anderson will also make millions for the Chael fight as will Chael. If I had to imagine, Vitor got a couple million and Okami might have got a million for his fight with Anderson too.

Forrest probably got a nice check, as did Rich, Jones and Bader probably brought home the bacon too.
 
#12 ·
". We're paid like entertainers when we should be paid like athletes. They want us hungry. They want us to be poor … so they have more control over us.
I don't know what is more ridiculous the first line or the following two.

Professional fighting, like any sport, IS entertainment. I don't where this guy is coming from. Athletes are entertainers that is why people spend their money to watch, they are seeking entertainment.

The bit about keeping fighters poor and hungry is just silly. A few years ago on this board there seemed to be a 'fighters don't get paid enough' thread every few weeks. The UFC has gone out of its way to protect fighters and pay them well.

In the article the fighter says he's a mid tier fighter, so what is he you doing to get to a higher level? Yes it cost money to higher trainers, gym costs etc, but that can't be put on the UFC. They promote fighters who can then get sponsorship. I just don't get where this fighter is coming from. Work your way up the card, work towards bonuses, work towards sponsorship. No one, including the UFC, is holding this guy back.

Another misleading statement from the article:

"As a result of Zuffa's contractual restraints, athletes who compete in the UFC are denied the freedom of movement available to athletes in other professional sports"

Show me any other major, or even miner league sport, or entertainment entity that does not hamper contracted individuals freedom of movement? Companies/leagues don't put money into promotion just to have that individual walk to someone else.

The anti trust arguments are interesting I'll say that, but unless it can be proved that the UFC is somehow hampering new entrants to put on shows it will go no where. Putting on a better show in no way stops other potential companies/leagues from also trying to put on a better show.
 
#13 · (Edited)
As far as the guys on Deadliest Catch, they make more than 32k/year. That's what they make during a 6-8 week run. Then they have months off and go back out. Captains and that I would assume bank far more than that. (Love that show).

Anyway, with regards to the fighters I do think the bottom rung guys make too little, as far as what we see they get paid. However, they all have sponsorship deals when they get into the UFC as well. The UFC is well aware that these deals will pay the fighters much more than if they were in a smaller organization, so being in the UFC affords fighters this type of perk. I have no idea if 'fighting mask' or any of these companies pay out $1000 to have their logo on your shorts or $5000 to entry level guys or what the deal is, so I can't really speculate too much on that side of it with any bit of credibility.
Part of the conspiracy theorist in me feels like some of these lesser known type guys might be more inclined to have a friend or acquaintance bet heavy on those fights where their opponents are +400-+600 underdogs. Have 50 guys bet 10k each, less suspicion that way, and walk away with 2-3M to split. A career in the ufc is awesome for some, to others a big payday like that could make anyone take a fall.

Anyway, this is not what the topic is about, my apologies for getting sidetracked. Also, my figures are completely arbitrary, someone fighting for peanuts in UFC may not have "50 investors" with 10k to lay down to fix a fight, but it's just an idea I always wonder if anyone has "taken advantage" of. I hope not, but feel naive to believe it hasn't.
 
#14 ·
Interesting points about the betting. It's happened in every sport and I'm sure it'll happen down the line with a ref, judge, trainer, or with a fighter. Did anybody read about Overeem's pay. There a lot of back door dealings that's not disclosed in the public to prevent others' from asking for the same arrangement. It's business.

I'd like to hear more fighters speak up about this though.
 
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