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post #30 of (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kin View Post
Lol, one of the quickest ways to tell someone doesn't know what they're doing is an over-emphasis on eye gouging, hair pulling, groin biting, etc. Like, seriously, ever heard of Matt Thornton, SBGi, Aliveness -- anything? This is so passe.

The fact that you guys think that eye-gouges are the best counter for guillotines and that biting is the way out of a triangle shows both a general lack of knowledge of fighting and a very specific lack of knowledge of those techniques in particular.

This is stupid and I feel stupid for even replying here, but I am having suuuch a slow day at work. If my disdain isn't already evident, I'd like it to be stated outright.

The problem with relying on those moves is that they're based on pain compliance rather than control, leverage, and a guaranteed finish. Gouging someone's eye out is a) harder than you'd think, and b) doesn't necessarily stop an opponent. In an MMA match, Gerard Gordeau gouged Yuki Nakai's eye into permanent blindness, but still got submitted.

Relying on someone else not being as tough as you is a DUMB idea, especially if you're gonna invest in a technique that doesn't have finishing ability. Take, for example, eye gouge vs guillotine. Even if we exclude the fact it'd be REALLY hard to find the guy's eye in time if you're in a proper guillotine, the eye gouge lacks control and leverage. The guy's just gonna shift his body to move his head out of the way, which is going to cost you precious seconds that you don't have. (Also, this is assuming you aren't in an arm-in guillotine or marcelo garcia high-elbow guillotine, where it's just physically impossible to gouge)

But lets just pretend the stars have aligned and the gods of unreliable dirty moves are smiling upon you, you find his eyes but you're in a deep guillotine. Now it's a matter of who's willing to suffer more. Now you said that if you pass out, but bite out a chunk of someone, you consider yourself the winner. That is where you are seriously wrong. Because if this guy doesn't fold to the pain (assuming he didnt just adjust his body to avoid it), you're going unconscious. You've either attempted to, or even successfully, permanently damaged his eye. And your unconscious. Brilliant move.

Banking on someone's mercy after you've tried to permanently injure them is about as smart as betting on an inherently inferior pain-compliance 'technique' on defeating an inherently superior leverage-based chokehold. That is to say, not smart at all. Not even a little.

Don't even get me started on how dumb the triangle biting is. All of the reasons why eye gouge vs guillotine is dumb are two fold for the bite vs triangle. Aside from the fact that you won't get through the jeans, as Voiceless already pointed out, you're not even threatening permanent injury. At least with the eye gouge its pain compliance + threat of potentially permanent injury vs a leverage-based finisher. Furthermore, doing the triangle-ing could easily go for an eye-gouge of his own. And that wouldn't even be retarded, since he's got control in that situation.

Really, the proper thing to do in either case is to defend the submission first. Once you're out of danger, you could go for your RBSD-fetish techniques like biting and eye gouging. But if you do it before then, you're gambling stupidly.

Lets not even get into the potential legal ramifications if you are successful.

But again, this is stuff that every legitimate martial artist knows. This topic is an instant red alert for LARPers and theorists. And a serious pet peeve of mine.


[/End Thread]

Kin knows his shit, like really knows his shit. Read his other posts on the forum an check out his fight videos.

Kin just pretty much said everything Ive been thinking this whole thread but put it in a much more applied and technically descriptive way than I ever could.

There is literally no argument to any of the scenarios he just described.
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