Originally Posted by Roflcopter
Toquihno had virtually no chance of getting this fight to the ground I found it comical that people think Hector Lombard's Olympic level Judo meant nothing for his submission grappling ability.
I'm not one of those you mention, but pure Judoka, even on Olympic level, do NOT have the same submission grappling abilities as high level BJJ fighters. Do you watch Olympic Judoż It's first and foremost about throwing people and preferably getting an Ippon score to win with it. Ground fighting is mostly about pinning the opponent on his back, there is hardly the attempt to "advance" position once the opponend is pinned. Submission attempts are very rare, also because fighters are usually stood up pretty fast if it doesn't really look like a submission is close to come.
In 2010 there was even a change in the Judo competition rules to ban leg grip throwing techniques. Officially it was to make Judo "look more attractive", but behind the scene it was to keep Sambo-fighters and BJJ-fighters away from competition, because these didn't care about "good throws", but just tried to somehow drag their opponents to the ground to innitiate ground fighting and win there.
Judo certainly gives an unbelievable good base and I'd recommend MMA fighters with a BJJ background to train Judo if they don't want to do wrestling, as Judo would be the natural link between stand-up and ground fighting for BJJ-fighters, BUT concerning submission grappling Judo is not even close to BJJ. BJJ is derived from Judo, but they're specialised on two different areas of fighting.