Originally Posted by Liddellianenko
So Jones lost A round, EVER. A close one at that. You got me. It still doesn't compare to 3 embarrassing losses to complete cans, 4.5 rounds of complete pounding, and being mounted by a fat, dehydrated reality TV winner who got booted out of the UFC.
I'm not going to comment much on the Ward comparison because frankly I couldn't be bothered to follow that boring pillow fighting hugfest of a sport since the dawn of a more realistic combat sport in MMA. On the face of it though, yes, a champion and #2 rank p4p boxer certainly looks better than the one who lost 22 freaking times. "Legends" in grainy black and white always gain bloated reputations over time, and anyone questioning them is considered ignorant or not "educated" by the snobs of the sport. Give Armstrong another thousand years and you'll probably hear about how he slew dragons and smashed the armies of Troy. Then again maybe he was better than Ward by virtue of holding 3 belts at the same time. You can start comparing Anderson to him then when Anderson actually holds 3 belts too instead of beating cans in LHW in addition to ruling over one of the weakest divisions in MMA.
But anyway, I don't really care about the boxing comparison or to educate myself on it because I haven't watched a single fight of either and don't intend to. Please stop peppering your posts with boxing analogies because frankly most MMA fans don't care and this is an MMA forum.
Anderson has shown excellence only against people who PLAY HIS GAME. Stand and trade with him. Even Hendo only went down because he stopped going for his olympic level takedowns and decided to ply his slow overrated haymaker against a sniper striker. Sonnen lost because 1. his sub defense is the worst in the entire UFC and he still beat the snot out of Anderson for 4.5 rounds and 2. because he failed takedowns from short grabbing and went for another "awesome standup" move. Anderson has never looked "excellent" against wrestlers, and has always avoided them. Those two, I repeat, ARE the only two wrestlers he has ever fought. How convenient.
No Okami is not a wrestler, the dude hasn't been to a wrestling championship in his life or trained it at all until well into MMA. His background is in Judo, which makes him similar to a BJJ specialist not a pure wrestler. A wrestling background means just that, a BACKGROUND. You grow up with it. There will always be a difference between 20 years of doing something every day and doing it for 5.
If every guy who practices shoots and sprawls for a couple of years is a wrestler then there are no non wrestlers in all of MMA! Even GSP is only so great a late wrestler because of him mixing his striking so very well and having great reflexes, I have no doubt he would lose in pure wrestling to most of those wrestlers he beat in MMA. And GSP is just the exception, not the rule. A very talented prodigy and an extremely rare exception. Otherwise you want to see what a "stylistic wrestler" looks like against a real wrestler then rewatch Okami's fight against Chael.
Yeah the last two guys Jones fought were middleweights ... guess what, one was a last minute replacement when no one else wanted the fight on 3 weeks notice. The other was forced upon him by whining fans and a money hungry WWE loving boss, not because he was at the top of the LHW division. And barring 5 secs he owned both them as expected and moved on, big deal.
Anderson on the other hand fought the likes of Leites, Cote and Lutter .. the "crem de la crem" of the MW division all "#1 contenders" lol after full camps and still looked like crap in those fights, either purposely or positionally.
Franklin was also probably the most overrated champion of all time in the UFC. Was beating people for YEARS after the Anderson loss you say? That's funny because his resume since then looks like a christmas tree, with the only little green lights coming over incredible competition like Lutter, MacDonald and geriatric Chuck and Wanderlei. But you're right, Rashad's one off decision loss followed by a win over Hendo is much worse than Franklin getting his head knocked off in minutes by Vitor and geriatric Le let alone his decision losses to the guy Rashad just beat and Forrest freakin griffin.
Wow Vitor with his ADCC Absolute division bronze and 3 sub wins is a McBlack belt, but Anderson with his 4 excuse me 3 subs + 1 pseudo sub with illegal elbows, in more fights than Vitor, and not even casting a shadow on any grappling contest mats is the amazing BJJ black belt par excellence. You know, the one "who'll always find a way to sub you even if you take him down". If you suck at sub defense. Or are a fat gassed guy. Or a guy who's already knocked out.
But all this text is useless, the Weidman fight will prove it all one way or another.
If Anderson demolishes Weidman easily, say a rd 1/2 TKO, I will gladly come in here and apologize for my misgivings about Anderson's style and give kudos to the guys who said I was wrong. Yes, even you copter, though it's certainly not going out on a limb calling an Anderson win. You can be smug all you want then, and I'll eat crow. Even with Anderson wisely catching Weidman at the worst time coming off a long layoff.
IF however Weidman beats or even pounds/challenges Silva (regardless of if Anderson pulls out a miracle hail mary at the end) then it only proves that Anderson is indeed a great but ultimately flawed and weaker fighter than Jones with a glaring hole in his game.
Yes, cool story bro. And Jones nearly had his arm taken off by a blown up middleweight on short notice who had 1 other submission win in 10 years.
I also enjoy the insinuation that Middleweight is a terribly weak division....it's funny because it's not only clearly better than Light Heavyweight...it's so much better than THREE title contenders in that division were nothing but blown up middleweights.
There is not a division in the ******* sport where guys who are fighting the P4P champion are LOSERS from a division BELOW what they were fighting. It'd literally be the equivalent of Anderson defending against Carlos Condit...it's hilarious.
Yes clearly Anderson is ducking wrestlers like Jones is ducking legitimate submission grapplers. Only Anderson has fought two of the most accomplished wrestlers in the history of the sport and Jones hasn't fought a single fighter with proven legitimate submission skills.
Because apparently, Chael Sonnens have been roaming MMA or years now and Anderson has just been a coward and avoiding them. And hear I thought Chael was distinct in his style and credentials, but apparently D1 All-Americans are just rampant in MMA....well..if you count Jake Rosholt. I guess Anderson should've fought him too?
Yes, he actually beat Okami, who would challenge for a title years later, as well as those several nice wins over ranked middleweights. And yes, Rashad, a natural Light Heavyweight, being a much older, past prime version of Dan Henderson at Light Heavyweight is much less impressive. But let's keep pretending that going up 20lbs in weight is some sort of meaningless, easy accomplishment that has no bearing on fights. Even within the regards to their weight class, Rashad has yet to show he can even beat decent ranked LHWs anymore..and Shogun flat out cant...he'd probably lose to Bader at this point...Rampage actually did.
And with that you've relegated yourself to a joke poster, and I will probably never read anything you have to post ever. But it's worth noting to people who may actually read this and go WOW VITOR won a medal at ADCC!
Yes, but ADCC was a joke back then...it didn't gain credibility until later. ADCC was literally almost exclusive done by mma guys who did some grappling...he was facing guys like Genki Sudo and Ricco Rodriguez....obviously world class grapplers..
....he beat Almeida who is by no means a world beater in pure BJJ, but he was also massively heavier.
Real grapplers didn't compete in ADCC back then so, no...that accomplishment means **** all....and considering Belfort was literally tapped out by Overeem and his sub wins are against the mighty Bobby Southworth, Anthony Johnson and the mightiest Joe "THe Ghetto Man" Charles.....Anderson is actually inarguably a more accomplished submission fighter than Belfort in terms of MMA. Nice troll post though, it was fun.