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Old 06-04-2006, 06:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
The Don
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oh true that but if your in a bind they can help you our or force the person to move in a way they do not want if you can cause sufficient pain, everyones pain tolerence is different, and true I have had mixed success with them but I am not sure if they are even allowed in MMA stuff since I have not seen it used
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