Outta My Head
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Paramount, CA
Originally Posted by Ferdelance
Yeah,I know:to you devotees out there, that might sound like a really stupid question, so please let me explain myself.
The owner of the country and western bar Horseface Charlie's decided to add a little class to his place by bringing in a projection TV and a huge,movie theater size screen in the back(Yeah, I know:the idea of adding class to Horseface Charlie's has people in stitches laughing,but anyway...)He's done whatever is necessary to have some UFC and MMA and other events shown on the screen.
Cut to the chase:There's this waitress who works there, her name is Arlene, has the prettiest hazel eyes.Somebody said to her, "Arlene, that's not Muay Thai;that's kickboxing" in reference to what was on the screen at that time.
I was too busy checking out Arlene to notice who was fighting who,but what gets me now that I think about it is:
When Arlene asked,quite sincerely,"What is the difference?"
YOu know something,I don't think that anybody gave her a satisfactory reply.
Help me out on this one, people?
Like, I know what I want to say,but I don't know how to say it.
I actually answered this question a while back in this thread here: Kickboxing in MMA
. Since I'm too lazy to retype all that stuff, let me just give you the meat and potatoes:
I think "kickboxing" as a whole is kind of a generic term for strikers who use more than just the 2-point offense. But there are a few reasons why it (and western boxing) are showing up more than most other traditional striking arts. I'll offer my views considering Muay Thai and Boxing in general.
Generally speaking, when you're training in either MT or Boxing, you're going to be training with practical/live application in mind. Whereas a lot of Traditional Martial Arts may still hold on to 1-step or 2-step sparring in order to engrain form and execution under application, they are rather limited in an actual combat situation where things are chaotic and will most likely progress past the initial set of techniques (even when those techniques are successful). When training in boxing or MT, a large part of the training is implemented and sharpened during sparring when you have a live and resisting partner. Instead of the flow of training being a "Start/Stop/Reset" process, the sparring will be "Start...do not stop until this ends" continuing process that teaches one how to adjust, pace themselves, feint and/or setup your opponent. Further, both arts do well in teaching footwork and distancing, which is way more maleable (or applicable) on your feet than it would be on the ground.
Another point of view is this: As Mark Hatmaker would note (find his book "Savage Strikes") 100% of all fights start on your feet. 90% of all fights go to the ground. 90% of the time, the fighter that can take the fight to the ground will win the fight. Since all fights start on your feet, why not be equipped with the tools to do damage on your feet? Further, why not be equipped to defend against such standing attacks? It just makes sense. All MMA practitioners should be able to fight in all circumstances.
Further, the skilled striker always has a chance as the act of closing the distance for a shoot/takedown offers the opportunity to damage the person shooting when they are most vunerable. In this case, a knee to the head while shooting in can always be discouraging to any grappler or end a fight. You can see that here when James Irving KOs Terry Martin with a flying knee as Martin goes for the takedown.
But this can be seen in stand up contests too, where great punches can end a fight. I think where kickboxing has a larger application than just boxing is that leg kicks have proven to be a serious weapon in the MMA world.
In the current stage of evolution that MMA is in, one must be able to fight standing and on the ground to be competitive. Most will be better at one thing than the other, but you have to be well versed in both. Randy Couture made "Dirty Boxing" a hallmark of his fight game as well as his wrestling. Genki Sudo has K-1 level striking to go with his phenomenal ground game. Bas Rutten was a phenomenal striker coming into Pancrase, and after he developed his ground game he became even more dangerous. As much as I love the ground game, effective striking can be just as lethal.
I then break down the most glaring differences in the 3 most prevalent "Kickboxing" styles of Western Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and San Shou/Sanda with this:
Generally speaking, Muay Thai is set apart from other Kick Boxing disciplines from by utilizing the full 8-point striking system (punches, kicks, knees and elbows), and emphasizing fighting in a clinch. Most western styles of Kick Boxing only allow a 4-point striking system (punches and kicks), and use the clinch only as a way to tie up the opponent in hopes for a break and reset in the action. Not only is the Muay Thai competitor needing to address the added weapons of elbows and knees, but they must be competent in the clinch as the fight will not be stopped once the opponents enter the clinch unless there is a period of inactivity.
Currently there are 3 predominant styles of "Kick Boxing" amongst active competitors and this is how they differ:
"Western" Style Kick Boxing - This is actually a modern form of full-contact Karate matches
Muay Thai - Traditional Kick Boxing as taught by practitioners in Thailand
- Utilizes only the 4-point striking system (punches and kicks)
- No throws or takedowns are allowed
- A Clinch causes a reset in the fighters position
San Shou - A modern system based off of full-contact Chinese Boxing
- Utilizes the full 8-point striking system (punches, kicks, elbows and knees)
- Only "Sweep" style throws and unbalancing pushes are allowed (like kicking an opponent's supporting leg while they are kicking, catching a kick and throwing it aside to unbalance the opponent, etc.)
- A Clinch situation continues with the fighters using suitable attacks and will only reset the fight if a period of inactivity occurs
- Utilizes a 6-point striking system (no elbows)
- Full throws and takedowns are allowed
- A Clinch situation continues with the fighters using suitable attacks and throws, and will only reset the fight if a period of inactivity occurs
For those who are wondering, K-1 uses a hybrid of western and Muay Thai techniques. It utilizes a 6-point striking system, no throws are allowed, and only allows a limited clinch situation (no neck clinches, and positions are quickly reset regardless of fighter activity).
I think that should summarize everything quite nicely...
Now I just gotta' finish up how to strike while retreating correctly for you.
It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree
... As long as I don't bore you and I spark a moment of thought, my goal is achieved
Queng leon queng tigre ecu tacacut, queca pa? - Pampangan Mandarigma Motto