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post #16 of (permalink) Old 06-28-2006, 06:18 PM
True Grappler
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Join Date: May 2006
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Originally Posted by USMCgrappler
Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.

Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.

Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49

Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?

Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.

Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16

The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.
First, you got my attention by saying that Kimo is not a real fighter. He put up more of a fight against Royce that any other fighter in the first four UFCs (except maybe Rob Van Clief)

I completely agree with you about Frank Shamrock. The man is one hell of a fighter.

If we are going to judge on who has done the most for the UFC than the answer is Royce Gracie. If we are going to say who is the most dominant fighter in the UFC than the answer is pretty simple and I suggest looking at three things:

1) has held a UFC championship and defended it in a fight without a decision (good fighters can finish opponents without the judges)

2) has successfully defended his title multiple times

3) has no disputes on his ownership of the title (steriods like Barnett or a disputed decision)

This leads me to one conclusion for active UFC fighters: Chuck Liddell. But Jens Pulver also fits the description, as do a few others. Chuck is by far the most successful.

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