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WTF is with all this "Brock Will Beat Nog" BS

2K views 31 replies 18 participants last post by  Judd Apatow 
#1 · (Edited)
Brock will get a rematch with Mir.
Regardless of how much of an asshole he comes off as on TUF, regarless of Nog's past achievments...the facts stand as this:

*Nog's performances in the UFC have solidified the argument that the severe beatings his face has endured over the course of his career have had a detrimental effect on his speed, accuracy, and overall performance as an MMA fighter.

*Frank Mir is completely ******* aware that cardio and standup have been holes in his game in the past. These will not be issues for this fight. Mentioning Pe De Pano or Ian Freeman are no longer legit arguments to discredit what Mir is capable of.

*Mir is being grossly overlooked. More so than Evans against Liddell...more so than Forrest against anyone ranked...hell, more so than Serra vs GSP. I think these opinions are based more so on Nog's past accomplishments and not the delayed, punch drunk performances we have seen of late.
 
#2 ·
I agree Mir has a good shot in this fight. I think he has a lot more innovative bjj I guess you could say. Mir trains rubber guard and is always looking for new stuff whereas Nogueira like they said on the show is very basic and pretty much uses double wrist control guard exclusively. Nog will still have a big advantage on his feet though. And im not saying Mir is better at bjj I jsut think he has a more modern bjj for mma game.
 
#6 ·
I agree Mir has a good shot in this fight.
Mir trains rubber guard and is always looking for new stuff whereas Nogueira like they said on the show is very basic and pretty much uses double wrist control guard exclusively.

Nog will still have a big advantage on his feet though.

And im not saying Mir is better at bjj I jsut think he has a more modern bjj for mma game.
Mir has a fair fight before him, that's for sure. I agree with you in that they have different approaches to BJJ- but let's also keep in mind that the basics are the basics for a reason. What submissions do you see most in UFC? RNC's, Armbars, Traingles. White belt material. Yeah, rubber guard is useful, but not always convenient or possible. Yes, double wrist control guard (spiderguard?) has its drawbacks too but also makes for easy transitions to leglocks and anklelocks while preventing your opponent from throwing your legs to one side and diving into your face fist or elbow first.

Standing up, I think it's close to even. Nog has great boxing and Mir has solid kicks and arguably more power (if he can manage to use it). Mir is more explosive than Nog (but he IS younger).

The more I think about it, the more this promises to be a really good fight.

I'm putting money on Nog, however. I've seen Mir lose to lesser opponents. Nothing lately has shown me that he has developed any new talents. If he pulled a Sherk and showed up with a remarkably technical and clean NEW skillset, then I'd go with Mir. But I dont see that.
 
#5 ·
*Nog's performances in the UFC have solidified the argument that the severe beatings his face has endured over the course of his career have had a detrimental effect on his speed, accuracy, and overall performance as an MMA fighter.
Nogueira also won those fights. He was dominating Heath Herring before getting headkicked. He then recovered and went on to dominate Herring some more.

Tim Sylvia, contrary to popular belief, is a solid fighter, and a huge HW. Nog got dropped, but then he went on to figure Big Tim out and submit him.

What the hell has Frank Mir done to make you believe he even has a shot against Nogueira? This isn't a hot dog eating contest, it's a fight, and Nog is the man in that aspect.

*Frank Mir is completely ******* aware that cardio and standup have been holes in his game in the past. These will not be issues for this fight. Mentioning Pe De Pano or Ian Freeman are no longer legit arguments to discredit what Mir is capable of.
After losing to Cruz, he went on to win a BS decision against Big Dan, got crushed by Brandon Vera, beat a kickboxer with a shitty ground game and then beat Lesnar, who was debuting in the UFC and had 1 previous fight. He knows his cardio sucks? Really? You'd think he'd work on it after the Freeman fight, but he didn't.

*Mir is being grossly overlooked. More so than Evans against Liddell...more so than Forrest against anyone ranked...hell, more so than Serra vs GSP. I think these opinions are based more so on Nog's past accomplishments and not the delayed, punch drunk performances we have seen of late.
Have you even seen the third Herring fight, or are you just basing that whole fight on one kick?
 
#23 ·
After losing to Cruz, he went on to win a BS decision against Big Dan, got crushed by Brandon Vera, beat a kickboxer with a shitty ground game and then beat Lesnar, who was debuting in the UFC and had 1 previous fight. He knows his cardio sucks? Really? You'd think he'd work on it after the Freeman fight, but he didn't.



Have you even seen the third Herring fight, or are you just basing that whole fight on one kick?

Ok, so you made an excuse for every fighter Mir beat...so ill do the same for the one he lost too. He was beat by the OLD Vera.

Yes, Nog outboxed/outclinched herring for the rest of that fight. But Herring let him up after the head kick. Also lets factor in what Herring has done since coming to the UFC: look like complete shit.
 
#7 ·
I feel Mir is being grossly underated going into this fight that said I dont think Mir will win but I would not be surprised, both fighters have very diffrent styles on the ground Nog is patient and waits for any chance to catch his opponent while Mir seem to just start grabbing shit hoping something sticks, Mir is always dangerous and could very well catch Mir but in the end I dont think either fighter is getting subbed and Nogs cardio will easily award him the later rounds, Nog by decision.
 
#8 ·
people seem to think that nog is the god of mma grappling....isn't this the same guy that got kneebar'd by barnett and was saved by the clock? the guy isn't invincible on the ground people....it's easy to say "he has better grappling" but they are very different styles....Mir has a very aggressive form of bjj and is explosive with his submissions....we'll see how they collide
 
#9 ·
You act as if Josh Barnett sucks at grappling.

Barnett's a way better MMA grappler than Frank Mir, and he has a way better gas tank, not to mention is a better striker. Mir is explosive for about 3 minutes, and then he gasses. You sub a kickboxer and a green Brock lesnar, and you're all of a sudden in Nog's league? The hell?
 
#11 ·
josh is a good grappler, but my point was to show that Nog can be beaten by submissions....not to mention, Mir is pretty good at leg locks

frankly, we've see so little of Mir in the last year or two that we really don't know where he stands with his cardio....it sounds like he's taking things more seriously...his cardio is more of a question mark i think....

and hardonk i believe was a purple belt in bjj....so it's not like mir was fighting a scrub on the ground
 
#14 ·
Just for the record, I only think this fight will be close if it hits the floor. On the feet Nog will destroy Mir. Mir is a very bad striker and always seems to find a way to get hurt on his feet. Unless he has made huge strides on his feet Nog should be able to pick him apart if the fight is standing.
 
#16 ·
Brock will get a rematch with Mir.
Regardless of how much of an asshole he comes off as on TUF, regarless of Nog's past achievments...the facts stand as this:

*Nog's performances in the UFC have solidified the argument that the severe beatings his face has endured over the course of his career have had a detrimental effect on his speed, accuracy, and overall performance as an MMA fighter.
How did you come to this conclusion? Do you have evidence that shows Nog has lost speed, accuracy, and overall performance? What leads you to believe it is a result of brain damage or scar tissue (the only two things I can think of that result in being beaton on).

Is it possible he is getting slower with age?

*Frank Mir is completely ******* aware that cardio and standup have been holes in his game in the past. These will not be issues for this fight. Mentioning Pe De Pano or Ian Freeman are no longer legit arguments to discredit what Mir is capable of.
Just becuse he is aware that cardio and standup are his issues, doesn't mean he has time to fix either, especially cardio. It takes literally years to even start building decent cardio. To get on the elite level some fighters like Sherk and Guida are at takes half a lifetime. Cardio continues to improve as you work it over a lifetime, it isn't like building a muscle in your arm, which could be done in a month or two.

Perhaps he will have imrpoved striking, but perhaps that is what Nog is working on.


*Mir is being grossly overlooked. More so than Evans against Liddell...more so than Forrest against anyone ranked...hell, more so than Serra vs GSP. I think these opinions are based more so on Nog's past accomplishments and not the delayed, punch drunk performances we have seen of late.

More so than Serra? Are you serious? Had I read this first I might not have taken the time to respond to your post, since this is simply not true.


Also, i'd like to ask what you have seen from Frank Mir's last performances that impressed you?

You call Nog's past performances "punch drunk", which I am sure is in reference to him taking a beating and then subbing later in the fight.

How was it Mir's fight against Lesnar went? Oh, right. Mir got his ass kicked until he pulled off the sub. Who does that remind me of?
 
#22 ·
More so than Serra? Are you serious? Had I read this first I might not have taken the time to respond to your post, since this is simply not true.


Also, i'd like to ask what you have seen from Frank Mir's last performances that impressed you?

You call Nog's past performances "punch drunk", which I am sure is in reference to him taking a beating and then subbing later in the fight.

How was it Mir's fight against Lesnar went? Oh, right. Mir got his ass kicked until he pulled off the sub. Who does that remind me of?

It is absolutely comparable to Serra from a hardcore fan perspective because everyone is already talking abount Nog's next opponent in Brock Lesnar...everyone.

Yeah Mir takes a beating too, but he subbed Lesnar in what, 90 seconds? Give or take a few. Took about the same time frame to break Sylvias arm. Nog had to bleed for three rds. That eye isnt getting in younger, seeing any better. Thats all Im sayin.

Also as much as I love Nog, punch-drunk is a fair assessment. You can hear it in his voice on TUF.

What I have seen from Frank Mir that impresses me and he didnt really get credit for was the chin he displayed in the Lesnar fight. He damn sure took those shots better than Randy (who crumpled like a sack of bricks). Granted Nog's chin is just as good if not more tested, this is just an example of how Mir's skills are overlooked by the average mma fan.

Everything else is a big question mark at this point, but to overlook him is ridiculous.
 
#17 ·
I dont really see anywhere where Mir is better than Nog though. Where can Mir take the fight that he can dominate?

The stand-up goes to Nog.
Power advantage to Mir but we have seen how fast Nog can recover.
Cardio goes to Nog.
BJJ lets just call even since they have different styles and I see them cancelling each other out.

Only way I see Mir winning is using wrestling to take Nogueira down and control him while not getting subbed to win a decision. However imo he hasnt and wont have the cardio to do this for five rounds. Rodrigo by decision.
 
#21 ·
Wait wait wait.. People think Mir has a chance?


Just.. I wanna ask.. HOW can Mir win this fight? By Sub? No... by KO? No... by Dec? No....

I don't get it. This is a weird thread.. Nog should be champp right now!
 
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#26 ·
I want to add my two cents.

Its obvious that on paper, Nog will win. He's better at everything that Mir maybe except strength. But dont over look Mir. Nog isnt and he's treating him as his only opponent at the moment. Mir is doing that too. Once one over looks his opponent, they can get caught ala Serra.

I wouldnt be surprised if Mir won. And if the odds are that against him, ill even bet on it. People called me crazy when I said Forrest would beat Rampage. :)
 
#27 ·
Forrest has solid cardio, good striking, really good BJJ and is a huge LHW. He had some advantages against Rampage.

Frank Mir is a total waste, who gasses in 3 minutes, has little striking ability and mad overrated BJJ. Dude couldn't even submit Wes Sims.
 
#29 ·
Lol, Wes Simms, love that guy. He cant beat Mir in their first fight so he wtf stomps him, I laughed so hard. But to be fair...you know how big Simms is?

Mir also broke Sylvia's arm, that's pretty badass. And Mir's also a top 10 heavyweight, cant forget that. He has the skills to beat Nog. Not saying he will win. I want Nog to win, Nog = 100% class. Mir, not so classy.

Cant also forget that Forrest is a battle genious. The guy doesnt get any credit for his cage smarts. He outsmarted Page and that's why he won!!!
 
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