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post #11 of (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 09:11 PM
a fire hydrant
MMA Fanatic
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by astro2
How do you do that cool quoting of parts?

Some clarifications.

When I said that you shouldn't lock your opponent, because you lock yourself I meant this. When you grab a good hold of your opponent from the bottom, then simultaneously you lock your own position. When you are in the bottom you don't want to stay there, you want to get out. You want to create space, get in a knee, get away. If you just hold on tightly then you give the guy on the top what he wants, control. You have to get his weight off, you have to get yourself in a better position for leverage. This is not done if you hold him, in any way. You should be pushing away from him, until you are in a spot where you once again can attack him and get control of him instead, that's the time to start locking him and holding him, when you are free to get control.

"It actually looks eerily similar to the arm-bar attempts that I was mentioning. Does this give you his back?"

Establish a good position. One good position is placing one of your forearms against his throat and the other forearm against his hip. Now you have something to push away from and something to spin against. You should try to get one of your knees under your opponent, play around with the space and be sure to bother his throat when you push out. Be careful with your arms and keep your elbows tucked in to your body most of the time. This is so your arms dont get caught and so you have good leverage and position. If you successfully put a knee under his body, then you should know use this leg and knee to spin around even more, you can now with your throat-hand push on his shoulder or head, and you should try to spin so that you can hook your other leg inside his thigh. Then you pull out your first knee and bring it around the guy.

This sounds like an interesting approach. I haven't thought of it, but I'l try it out the next time I get on the mat. It actually looks eerily similar to the arm-bar attempts that I was mentioning. Does this give you his back?"

No this does not give you his back, this pulls your opponent into your guard. In the starting position he is chest on your chest. You are trying to rotate underneath him, and getting him in between your legs, by first getting one knee under his body, then you continue rotating till you have both your legs around him, still lying on your back, and that is the guard.

Going for the back is not much you can hope for if you are having trouble escaping, especially since using the above forearm on his throat, you don't have the underhook needed to circle to his back. You could switch midway, go for the halfguard, and then the underhook and go for the back, but there are many details to that move that I wont cover now.

"While I don't usually try to do anything that can get my face crushed, like bridging without first controlling my opponents arms, I am not big on BJJ competition, so I don't really know."

Well I can't talk for much more than pure gi-BJJ. With punches you have a more complex game. But considering it being a side control, getting just one knee in should make plenty of distance to avoid punches enough. And an opponent will have a hard time landing punches and even elbows if he is very flat on your chest, so when he goes for the punishment, you will have space and you might accept perhaps a 50%-blow somewhere on your head, until you get half or full-guard and either lock one or both of his arms, or being in a fullguard you have greater control of the distance between you and you can hit him better than he can you, if you keep his weight off you.

"This is an interesting bit of gi grappling and I like the idea of controlling the arm. The idea of pushing his arm away might be difficult being on the bottom unless you are stronger then your opponent, which you cannot always count on."

It's actually not as much depending on strength as it is on the right moment to do it, once you have his elbow and he is facing away from you, you have very very good leverage on him, and you might even get the back from this. But the leverage here is him being very low on your chest, facing away and not having your arm trapped. The counter against this escape-technique is of course getting very high on your opponents chest, locking his arms behind your back, and virtually without anything interesting to do with his arms. Then you play for the mount.

"Yeah, give him your back. I may not be a master at BJJ, but even I can tell you that's not a good idea. I guess that's why it's a last resort, though."

The point of this idea is to explore all your options, sometimes you are able to instead of getting one knee inside of his body, you move your body very far away from him by circling and you might be able to go to your side and then roll over to your back, by switching your hip in a scissorlike manner, and then immidiately get on your knees. From the knees, even if he is on top of you, you have very good movement freedom and power. It's a more powerful position than most people realise, but since your head might be looking against the floor you need good sensitivity and awareness of what's going on with your opponent. There are plenty of takedowns you can do from here and you can for example pull guard, go for an omo plata, go for the back and lots of other things, depending on what your opponent does. What you are looking for most basically from this turtle position is to keep him in front of you, dont let him circle around your body, so grab what you can.

"Yeah, the layngay strategy is both boring and gets point deductions in BJJ competition. If he was talking about competing, which I doubt he was with being new to BJJ, then I apologize. I'm not a BJJ competitor."

Well I thougth that even though he is not talking about competition now, eventually he will compete in BJJ as I think most people that are serious want to. And even in his training at the club, BJJ rules apply and if someone is just lying and holding, it doesn't give any of them that very much, so either the two people sparring or the instructor should decide to switch positions. But then again who am I to say from which positions you learn alot, if you are lying down extremely controlled by your opponent you at least learn that you can be controlled if you get here, and it might be an incentive to be wary of the position and rolling up to all fours before your opponent has you in total control. Eg, roll up when you feel that he is passing your guard.

you guys are making me read WAY too much...
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