Ben Askren Has a Message for Nate Marquardt: ‘Bring It’ - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
Bellator FC Bellator MMA (Bellator) is the 2nd largest mixed martial arts (MMA) promotion in the USA and the largest tournament-based MMA organization in the world. Headquartered in Newport Beach, California, the company was formed in 2008 by Chairman and CEO Bjorn Rebney. Bellator’s events are primarily structured around tournaments. The tournament winner is declared the number one contender in their respective weight class, and is awarded a check for $100,000 and a shot at the reigning Bellator champion. Bellator uses the motto “The Toughest Tournament In Sports” Bellator FC now airs on Spike TV Thursday nights!

Reply

Old 07-10-2011, 05:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,099
Fine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
So the same Nate that got badly owned by all wrestlers he's faced.
Ummmmmm, which are these wrestlers that have owned Nate over the last several years? Chael would handle Askren also.

Okami didn't exactly outwrestle Nate for that win.

So we have Chael, a much bigger man than Ben and possibly the best wrestler in MMA period.

Nate is way ahead of Ben anytime this is on the feet and he has BJJ lightyears ahead of Ben, who hasn't faced anybody nearly as dangerous as Nate in that department.

I just don't see how this is such an easy call on Ben. I would think Nate would be the favourite here.
Fine Wine is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 07-10-2011, 05:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
KO artist
 
Liddellianenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,039
Liddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Wine View Post
Ummmmmm, which are these wrestlers that have owned Nate over the last several years? Chael would handle Askren also.

Okami didn't exactly outwrestle Nate for that win.

So we have Chael, a much bigger man than Ben and possibly the best wrestler in MMA period.

Nate is way ahead of Ben anytime this is on the feet and he has BJJ lightyears ahead of Ben, who hasn't faced anybody nearly as dangerous as Nate in that department.

I just don't see how this is such an easy call on Ben. I would think Nate would be the favourite here.
Izuru Takeuchi and Kiuma_Kunioku are also primarily wrestlers and they have multiple wins and draws over Nate.

Okami may not have outwrestled per se but as far as I remember he did utilize the clinch and tie ups a lot which is based off wrestling control as well.

As far as Sonnen being a better wrestler than Askren, that's pure opinion. Askren has far better creds and a much more unorthodox and effective wrestling style, something that made him infamous in his wrestling career.

Sonnen is bigger than Askren yeah, but Marquardt was bigger than him and still got manhandled. People who mention size advantage of weight cutters always seem to forget that the fight will be AT Askren's optimum weight of 170 lbs. That means Nate will have to lose a lot of his muscle mass / stamina to make the fight.

In real terms it comes down to the same thing. Nate at 170 vs Askren will be proportionally smaller.
Liddellianenko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 06:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,099
Fine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level now
All good points, but those losses were a long time ago now (and were they in a ring, i.e. ropes? Much easier to take somebody down than in a cage). Nate isn't an easy guy to just dump on his azz, plus he can submit you and he has decent stand-up and could be very dangerous to Askren anytime this is on the feet (see Maia or Kampmann).

Also, you don't loose muscle mass to cut weight, absolutely not. That has a devestating effect on you. You diet very carefully for this and ensure the right intake of foods and portion sizes. It is more about cutting water to make weight. As long as you cut weight right (and perhaps Nate may not be able to make 170 without being too drained), it will always give you a relative advantage over a naturally smaller guy (hence people do it).

As for Sonnen, watching his old fights, his wrestling was average compared to how it is now. Some mention the roids (which may be true), or perhaps he has just adapted it better to MMA over the years. Either way, his wreslting now is freaky in MMA and a lot different to when he came into the sport green as a wrestler which is where Askren is at now.

Last edited by Fine Wine : 07-10-2011 at 06:05 AM.
Fine Wine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 06:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
KO artist
 
Liddellianenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,039
Liddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Wine View Post
All good points, but those losses were a long time ago now (and were they in a ring, i.e. ropes? Much easier to take somebody down than in a cage). Nate isn't an easy guy to just dump on his azz, plus he can submit you and he has decent stand-up and could be very dangerous to Askren anytime this is on the feet (see Maia or Kampmann).

Also, you don't loose muscle mass to cut weight, absolutely not. That has a devestating effect on you. You diet very carefully for this and ensure the right intake of foods and portion sizes. It is more about cutting water to make weight. As long as you cut weight right (and perhaps Nate may not be able to make 170 without being too drained), it will always give you a relative advantage over a naturally smaller guy (hence people do it).

As for Sonnen, watching his old fights, his wrestling was average compared to how it is now. Some mention the roids (which may be true), or perhaps he has just adapted it better to MMA over the years. Either way, his wreslting now is freaky in MMA and a lot different to when he came into the sport green as a wrestler which is where Askren is at now.
Also true, Sonnen has improved a lot sinze his wrestling career.

But as far as Nate submitting Askren goes, or Askren being a "green" wrestler in MMA, I don't see it.

I mean Askren is already a Brown Belt in BJJ and that's phenomenal considering how short a time he's been at it. And he's obviously far better at it than Sonnen who has some of the worst sub-defence in MMA history, and even he wasn't so much as threatened by Nate's subs.
Liddellianenko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 06:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,099
Fine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level now
Yes green was probably a bit stronger word. I meant it in comparison to the experience Sonnen has now (and the same goes for Nate).

Anyways, this may all be a mute point, because by the looks of it, Coker is talking about Nate being signed with SF. One way of keeping Nate under the Zuffa banner whilst looking like the UFC is punishing roid users. They will just merge him back accross to the UFC when they do a SF merger down the rd. Dana is a smart man.
Fine Wine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 07:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
KO artist
 
Liddellianenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,039
Liddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings SystemLiddellianenko Is Beyond A Rankings System
Ah crap there goes that train. What a soap opera artist Dana turned out to be.
Liddellianenko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 03:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
Don't Sweat the Technique
 
St.Paul Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,660
St.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For Greatness
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Wine View Post
Ummmmmm, which are these wrestlers that have owned Nate over the last several years? Chael would handle Askren also.

Okami didn't exactly outwrestle Nate for that win.

So we have Chael, a much bigger man than Ben and possibly the best wrestler in MMA period.

Nate is way ahead of Ben anytime this is on the feet and he has BJJ lightyears ahead of Ben, who hasn't faced anybody nearly as dangerous as Nate in that department.

I just don't see how this is such an easy call on Ben. I would think Nate would be the favourite here.
1) In any type of wrestling outside of Greco Roman Ben would likely beat Chael.

2)
__________________



Sig credit: MC

~ Lifetime Membership sponsored by RustyRenegade ~
St.Paul Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 10:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
The Avy Slut
 
Indestructibl3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,342
Indestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For GreatnessIndestructibl3 Is Destined For Greatness
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Wine View Post
All good points, but those losses were a long time ago now (and were they in a ring, i.e. ropes? Much easier to take somebody down than in a cage). Nate isn't an easy guy to just dump on his azz, plus he can submit you and he has decent stand-up and could be very dangerous to Askren anytime this is on the feet (see Maia or Kampmann).

Also, you don't loose muscle mass to cut weight, absolutely not. That has a devestating effect on you. You diet very carefully for this and ensure the right intake of foods and portion sizes. It is more about cutting water to make weight. As long as you cut weight right (and perhaps Nate may not be able to make 170 without being too drained), it will always give you a relative advantage over a naturally smaller guy (hence people do it).

As for Sonnen, watching his old fights, his wrestling was average compared to how it is now. Some mention the roids (which may be true), or perhaps he has just adapted it better to MMA over the years. Either way, his wreslting now is freaky in MMA and a lot different to when he came into the sport green as a wrestler which is where Askren is at now.


Nuff said.
__________________
Thanks to limba for this AWESOME sig
Indestructibl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 02:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,099
Fine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level nowFine Wine is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by St.Paul Guy View Post
1) In any type of wrestling outside of Greco Roman Ben would likely beat Chael.

2)
What about MMA wrestling? Askren still has a lot more to show

Indestructable, see my next comment about 'green', my bad for wrong use of word.
Fine Wine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 02:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
Don't Sweat the Technique
 
St.Paul Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,660
St.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For Greatness
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Wine View Post
What about MMA wrestling? Askren still has a lot more to show

Indestructable, see my next comment about 'green', my bad for wrong use of word.
Askren is a better wrestler in the context of MMA too. Trust me. Askren was possibly the best NCAA wrestler since Cael Sanderson.

In a MMA fight between Chael and Ben Chael would probably win, but that would be a size issue mostly. It wouldn't surprise me if Ben subbed Chael, though.
__________________



Sig credit: MC

~ Lifetime Membership sponsored by RustyRenegade ~
St.Paul Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios