Support the right to own firearms - Page 4 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
The Debate Club debating in a friendly environment

Reply

Old 10-23-2012, 05:12 PM   #31 (permalink)
MMA Patriot
 
americanfighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: louisville ky
Posts: 4,000
americanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By All
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadmanshand View Post
No. They are crazy. Do you know how often someone on the street is attacked by a buff machete wielding drug dealer in America? Virtually never because that shit would be plastered on every tv they could find. It's too sensational not to. And most muggings end if you shown any sign of calling for help. Most burglaries end if they realize someone in the house is awake. Most weapons are a security blanket. .
Here are the senerios I know of when I was younger my father and I were confronted by 3 guys with bats that threatened us and were going to beat us till they saw my dad had a gun. My friend INS in his 60s not to long ago was walking from Church to his car was confronted by a man who demanded his car keys. My friend showed a gun and immediately the situation was defused.

Those are real situation that happen every day thank god my friend and dad had a gun. I only used machete example because that's what you or someone's said that what the bad guys are armed with when they break in your house.
__________________
"The fat man flies at midnight"
americanfighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
The Internet Prophet
 
deadmanshand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,750
deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.deadmanshand Is among the most hated on the net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by americanfighter View Post
Here are the senerios I know of when I was younger my father and I were confronted by 3 guys with bats that threatened us and were going to beat us till they saw my dad had a gun. My friend INS in his 60s not to long ago was walking from Church to his car was confronted by a man who demanded his car keys. My friend showed a gun and immediately the situation was defused.

Those are real situation that happen every day thank god my friend and dad had a gun. I only used machete example because that's what you or someone's said that what the bad guys are armed with when they break in your house.
No one said this. One person said they keep a machete by the bed. That's it. If those stories above are your actual scenarios use those. They are good scenarios. Plausible and realistic. Based off of actual experience. They give a solid foundation for your argument. Using absurdly implausible ones weakens your position. It's a basic rule of debate.
__________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie and withs strange aeons even death may die.
deadmanshand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 06:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
Lightweight
 
locnott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,603
locnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level nowlocnott is on another level now
Guns are illegal in mexico!!!!!
locnott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 06:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
MMA Patriot
 
americanfighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: louisville ky
Posts: 4,000
americanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By All
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadmanshand View Post
No one said this. One person said they keep a machete by the bed. That's it. If those stories above are your actual scenarios use those. They are good scenarios. Plausible and realistic. Based off of actual experience. They give a solid foundation for your argument. Using absurdly implausible ones weakens your position. It's a basic rule of debate.
Figures I probly red something wrong along the way.
__________________
"The fat man flies at midnight"
americanfighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
Heavyweight
 
ClydebankBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 3,887
Blog Entries: 1
ClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C View Post
Stopping guns right now in America doesn't = criminals have no guns, that's silly. There's an entire black market for guns, there's millions of guns lying around in American homes, so many that the government wouldn't be able to track down and get or even attempt to spend the money doing so. Criminals who wanted a gun could get a gun without much issue regardless of if it's legal or not.

You know what banning guns would do? It would create an even bigger black market and an even bigger demand for them (from criminals and gun enthusiasts alike), and instead of being sold in stores, they would be sold on the streets (they already are, but far more so).

Your solution solves nothing and just makes it where people who like guns for legitimate reasons don't have legal access to them.
I dont say get rid of guns. Firing ranges, police situations etc. Hunting or whatever. But a gun for protection? You know how many gang members have bought their gun and claim it's for "protection"? Most guns are registered down the line. Trace your guns, you'll cut out a huge percentage.
__________________
FFL '14
Joe Warren : Cheick Kongo (May 17th): John Dodson (June 7th): Fabricio Werdum : Sergio Pettis (June 7th)



MMA Forum Survival GP Season 5 Winner

VIP FFL 2013: 19th (Last) - 40 Points
ClydebankBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 08:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
M.C
needs more cowbell
 
M.C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: California
Posts: 10,239
M.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
I dont say get rid of guns. Firing ranges, police situations etc. Hunting or whatever. But a gun for protection? You know how many gang members have bought their gun and claim it's for "protection"? Most guns are registered down the line. Trace your guns, you'll cut out a huge percentage.
The government would never put in the money it takes to trace down every single gun people own in America and then retrieve them, there are millions of them, it would never happen, which is one of the big reasons why guns will never be banned.

More importantly, let's say the government did try to trace and retrieve them, how many people are going to say "yeah here you go, here's the gun"? Certainly 0 criminals, 0 gun enthusiasts, and a large portion of the general population who simply have to say "I don't have it anymore, sorry".

Most of the guns in the country would still be here in the country, and the ones that are taken would simply be resupplied by the black market, criminals would get their guns from there instead of the legal shops, it would not stop, prevent, or hurt criminals getting guns on any level to ban them, it would only make legitimate gun owners commit a crime of lying to the authority so they can keep their gun.
__________________
M.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:29 PM   #37 (permalink)
Heavyweight
 
ClydebankBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 3,887
Blog Entries: 1
ClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C View Post
The government would never put in the money it takes to trace down every single gun people own in America and then retrieve them, there are millions of them, it would never happen, which is one of the big reasons why guns will never be banned.

More importantly, let's say the government did try to trace and retrieve them, how many people are going to say "yeah here you go, here's the gun"? Certainly 0 criminals, 0 gun enthusiasts, and a large portion of the general population who simply have to say "I don't have it anymore, sorry".

Most of the guns in the country would still be here in the country, and the ones that are taken would simply be resupplied by the black market, criminals would get their guns from there instead of the legal shops, it would not stop, prevent, or hurt criminals getting guns on any level to ban them, it would only make legitimate gun owners commit a crime of lying to the authority so they can keep their gun.
Next time I get stopped for having a bit of weed on me, I should just say "I dont have any weed, sorry".

I know the govenment will never do it, but isnt that kind of the point of the thread? If you reference the black market, everything should be legal. Stealing a TV right out of the store should be legal because Ive got a mate who sells some. Black market is much more rare than the 'market'. There are people who want a handgun, so they go and buy one. People not connection to any criminal activies or anything. If buying a gun were illegal, the people with no criminal connection would have no way to get one. It's like people who have never come across drugs or drug use. You see it all around you if you know some people into them, but if you dont then they almost dont seem to exist.

It will never happen, but countries where guns are illegal have less gun crimes...obviously.
__________________
FFL '14
Joe Warren : Cheick Kongo (May 17th): John Dodson (June 7th): Fabricio Werdum : Sergio Pettis (June 7th)



MMA Forum Survival GP Season 5 Winner

VIP FFL 2013: 19th (Last) - 40 Points
ClydebankBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:09 PM   #38 (permalink)
M.C
needs more cowbell
 
M.C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: California
Posts: 10,239
M.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
Next time I get stopped for having a bit of weed on me, I should just say "I dont have any weed, sorry".

I know the govenment will never do it, but isnt that kind of the point of the thread? If you reference the black market, everything should be legal. Stealing a TV right out of the store should be legal because Ive got a mate who sells some. Black market is much more rare than the 'market'. There are people who want a handgun, so they go and buy one. People not connection to any criminal activies or anything. If buying a gun were illegal, the people with no criminal connection would have no way to get one. It's like people who have never come across drugs or drug use. You see it all around you if you know some people into them, but if you dont then they almost dont seem to exist.

It will never happen, but countries where guns are illegal have less gun crimes...obviously.
You should say that, unless they smell it or there's reason to search, you can get away with saying "no I don't have it", do you realize how many people do this for...everything, and get away with it?

Criminals will get guns via the black market, they are criminals. They will go out of their way to secure guns for themselves, this is a fact. So, closing down legal gun shops prevent non-criminals (people who don't harm others, thus not presenting a problem owning one) from getting new ones (over a million people in America own them already) and how does this stop criminals who will get them easily via illegal means if this were to happen?

Your proposition basically states "close down legal gun shops so non-criminals can't buy them" which makes no sense as there's no reason to do this, then not proposing any solution to criminals getting guns, because criminals will get them weather the are legal or not, it's not going to slow them down, all it means is that instead of buying it in a store, they'll buy it from the guy in the house down the street who wants to make a quick buck, or from one of the underground markets for them (which would grow substantially because now they are in high demand), which in return would actually be creating MORE crime.

Your argument isn't making any sense towards stopping criminals getting guns.
__________________
M.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:15 PM   #39 (permalink)
Heavyweight
 
ClydebankBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 3,887
Blog Entries: 1
ClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings SystemClydebankBlitz Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C View Post
You should say that, unless they smell it or there's reason to search, you can get away with saying "no I don't have it", do you realize how many people do this for...everything, and get away with it?

Criminals will get guns via the black market, they are criminals. They will go out of their way to secure guns for themselves, this is a fact. So, closing down legal gun shops prevent non-criminals (people who don't harm others, thus not presenting a problem owning one) from getting new ones (over a million people in America own them already) and how does this stop criminals who will get them easily via illegal means if this were to happen?

Your proposition basically states "close down legal gun shops so non-criminals can't buy them" which makes no sense as there's no reason to do this, then not proposing any solution to criminals getting guns, because criminals will get them weather the are legal or not, it's not going to slow them down, all it means is that instead of buying it in a store, they'll buy it from the guy in the house down the street who wants to make a quick buck, or from one of the underground markets for them (which would grow substantially because now they are in high demand).

Your argument isn't making any sense towards stopping criminals getting guns.
You have THE most trusting cops on the planet. "Do you have weed?", "No", "We'll I've heard everything I need to hear, now run along sir".

So basically, you're theory is having a gun prevents people from shooting you? Heres a house breaking scenario:-

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down strairs with a knife. His back is turned. You stab him.

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down stairs with your gun. His back is turned. You shoot him.

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down stairs with a knife. He sees you. He shoots you.

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down stairs with a gun. He sees you. He shoots you.

In summary, unless you are trained with a gun, you've got a 50/50 chance of shooting first (probably less if the criminal is experienced). You have just as must chance of using a knife and getting the same success. If you are trained with the gun, then in any scenario you will be allowed to have access to one.
__________________
FFL '14
Joe Warren : Cheick Kongo (May 17th): John Dodson (June 7th): Fabricio Werdum : Sergio Pettis (June 7th)



MMA Forum Survival GP Season 5 Winner

VIP FFL 2013: 19th (Last) - 40 Points
ClydebankBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 12:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
M.C
needs more cowbell
 
M.C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: California
Posts: 10,239
M.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the systemM.C has cheated the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
You have THE most trusting cops on the planet. "Do you have weed?", "No", "We'll I've heard everything I need to hear, now run along sir".

So basically, you're theory is having a gun prevents people from shooting you? Heres a house breaking scenario:-

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down strairs with a knife. His back is turned. You stab him.

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down stairs with your gun. His back is turned. You shoot him.

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down stairs with a knife. He sees you. He shoots you.

Someone enters your house with a gun. You go down stairs with a gun. He sees you. He shoots you.

In summary, unless you are trained with a gun, you've got a 50/50 chance of shooting first (probably less if the criminal is experienced). You have just as must chance of using a knife and getting the same success. If you are trained with the gun, then in any scenario you will be allowed to have access to one.
If you have weed in your pocket and your stoned out of your mind, he's probably going to do a quick search. 99% of the time you would get asked this question if high while driving, in which case no, cops don't search your car for a bag of weed unless they are extremely bored, if you say no you don't have anything on you, you have a 99% chance of not getting caught so long as you don't have a big bag of weed in your pocket.

When did I say that a gun prevents people from shooting you? Please find a post of mine that even remotely mentions that. I said that you cannot on any level prevent criminals from getting guns, even if you make them illegal, it's 100% impossible in America, there are far too many guns in the hands of the public and you can already get illegal guns all over the place, if they became illegal to own in general the illegal gun market would drastically rise, and criminals would still get illegal guns very, very easily.

You haven't proposed a single, tiny argument that can withstand scrutiny about how to prevent criminals from getting guns and killing people. "Ban guns" Doesn't solve the problem, on any level. You would have to come up with something far more complex and detailed than that to even start gun prevention in America, much less actually prevent it.
__________________
M.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios