Actually, I do have a right to complain about the score. See, if people vote someone in who messes up the whole country, then it's their fault, they caused it, they are the ones responsible for this issue. They have no right to complain.
I, on the other hand, was not responsible and did not vote whomever it was in that ruined the country, therefore I have a right to complain about other people screwing up the country I live in, as it wasn't my fault and I'm not responsible for it.
With that said, as I stated before, the majority of decisions aren't made by the people American's vote into office anyways, they are made with bribes by lobbyists. You don't have to look any further than the Protect IP act to see this. I honestly don't complain about presidents or politicians or anything like that, as they have little say in what actually gets done anyways.
You are correct I am wrong. You have a constitutional right to complain and you have a knack for twisting an argument that must drive your teachers crazy.
Quote:
I, on the other hand, was not responsible and did not vote
I suppose that's a valid way to live your life. I prefer to participate.
I like to get all the perks available from a citizenship that everyone else in the world wishes they had. (ok not everyone)
You are correct I am wrong. You have a constitutional right to complain and you have a knack for twisting an argument that must drive your teachers crazy.
I suppose that's a valid way to live your life. I prefer to participate.
I like to get all the perks available from a citizenship that everyone else in the world wishes they had. (ok not everyone)
I don't think it's twisting an argument, It's just a logical fallacy. If you are responsible for something (voters), you shouldn't complain about it, it's your fault. The people who have to suffer the fallout who were not responsible for it (people who don't vote), have a right to complain about your decisions that made the issue. As I said, I don't complain anyways, I'm just pointing out that people who use that argument are using illogical reasoning, nothing else in the entire world works that way (where those responsible can complain, and those not responsible can't), and it doesn't work for politics either.
As for living your life by participating and taking advantage of the citizenship, that's cool, millions of people do, there's nothing "wrong" with it, I just don't see the point and therefore don't want anything to do with it.
__________________
MMAF Hall of Fame Inductee
Debater of the Year - 2009
MMAF Graphics Champion
I don't think it's twisting an argument, It's just a logical fallacy. If you are responsible for something (voters), you shouldn't complain about it, it's your fault. The people who have to suffer the fallout who were not responsible for it (people who don't vote), have a right to complain about your decisions that made the issue. As I said, I don't complain anyways, I'm just pointing out that people who use that argument are using illogical reasoning, nothing else in the entire world works that way (where those responsible can complain, and those not responsible can't), and it doesn't work for politics either.
As for living your life by participating and taking advantage of the citizenship, that's cool, millions of people do, there's nothing "wrong" with it, I just don't see the point and therefore don't want anything to do with it.
B1: I know you don't and you aren't the only one on the forum with that gift.
B2: If you were in Florida in 2000 you could have changed the world.
Everything between the bolded parts is over my head and makes no sense to me at all.
B1: I know you don't and you aren't the only one on the forum with that gift.
B2: If you were in Florida in 2000 you could have changed the world.
Everything between the bolded parts is over my head and makes no sense to me at all.
It's pretty simple.
You get drunk, get in a car and hit a kid. You have no right to complain about going to jail, you are responsible for the whole thing. No one forced you to get in the car, or even drink for that matter. It's your fault, you have no right to complain when you go to jail, you took part in an act/made a decision that hit the kid.
The kid and his family, however, have every right to complain, because they are suffering the fallout from your mistake, your bad decision, and they were not responsible for you getting drunk, getting in a car, and hitting the kid.
If you are the cause of an issue (voting in someone who ruined the country) then you have no right to complain, it's your fault, you took part in an act that helped ruin the country - you, just like the drunk driver, have no right to complain
I, on the other hand, was not responsible for your decision to vote someone who ruined the country into office, I took no part of it, I am suffering the fallout of your bad decisions, thus I have the right to complain - much like the kid you hit with your car and his family.
I can't make it anymore clear than that.
__________________
MMAF Hall of Fame Inductee
Debater of the Year - 2009
MMAF Graphics Champion
I'm having a hard time grasping the concept so bear with me.
By this logic does this mean that if a baby drowns in a bucket 10 feet from you and you sit in a chair and do nothing, since it's not your baby and you did nothing, then you have no responsibility? and in fact, are entitled to complain about the parents bad decisions?
I'm having a hard time grasping the concept so bear with me.
By this logic does this mean that if a baby drowns in a bucket 10 feet from you and you sit in a chair and do nothing, since it's not your baby and you did nothing, then you have no responsibility? and in fact, are entitled to complain about the parents bad decisions?
This is where you are misunderstanding.
If one has the power, the ability, the way/knowledge to actually help the baby, and he does not, then he should have known better. He should have been responsible and saved the baby. The parents are equally (more so, actually) responsible.
The difference in the baby and the car/kid example, and the voting discussion, is that in the case of the baby, you have the ability to effect/change something, where as the kid/voting you have 0 ability to effect/change something.
I'm not having the ability to change the country, my vote is useless, it doesn't do anything (neither does yours, which is why I said I don't complain anyways).
The better example of what you're saying would be if there is a baby drowning on the other side of a glass wall that I cannot break, where I cannot save him, can I complain about the parents who are on the right side of the wall that can actually help the baby but choose not to?
__________________
MMAF Hall of Fame Inductee
Debater of the Year - 2009
MMAF Graphics Champion
If one has the power, the ability, the way/knowledge to actually help the baby, and he does not, then he should have known better. He should have been responsible and saved the baby. The parents are equally (more so, actually) responsible.
The difference in the baby and the car/kid example, and the voting discussion, is that in the case of the baby, you have the ability to effect/change something, where as the kid/voting you have 0 ability to effect/change something.
I'm not having the ability to change the country, my vote is useless, it doesn't do anything (neither does yours, which is why I said I don't complain anyways).
The better example of what you're saying would be if there is a baby drowning on the other side of a glass wall that I cannot break, where I cannot save him, can I complain about the parents who are on the right side of the wall that can actually help the baby but choose not to?
I think it is you who are misunderstanding. That glass wall that you perceive as preventing you from making a difference does not exist. I know very well the feeling that it does but, it doesn’t. You can make a difference. In your neighborhood, town, county and by that make a differenc in the world. Believe it or not the person you elect dog catcher affects peoples lives. I know it sounds corny but, cliches are born of truth. The person you help get elected County Sheriff will affect your life more than the Pres. ever will.
Your arguments while intelligent and well written come across as an effort to explain and justify why you feel that you are entitled to all of the benefits of citizenship without standing up and fulfilling your civic duties and your responsibility to control government.
I don’t think that is really the case. I think you just haven’t lived long enough to realize that the “they” that you blame for screwing the world up is actually “we”and apathy is one of the tools "we" use to do it.
I think it is you who are misunderstanding. That glass wall that you perceive as preventing you from making a difference does not exist. I know very well the feeling that it does but, it doesn’t. You can make a difference. In your neighborhood, town, county and by that make a differenc in the world. Believe it or not the person you elect dog catcher affects peoples lives. I know it sounds corny but, cliches are born of truth. The person you help get elected County Sheriff will affect your life more than the Pres. ever will.
Your arguments while intelligent and well written come across as an effort to explain and justify why you feel that you are entitled to all of the benefits of citizenship without standing up and fulfilling your civic duties and your responsibility to control government.
I don’t think that is really the case. I think you just haven’t lived long enough to realize that the “they” that you blame for screwing the world up is actually “we”and apathy is one of the tools "we" use to do it.
You vote someone in as dog catcher, and he goes about doing his job and making sure your neighborhood/city is free of stray dogs. Now if you voted the other guy in for the job, he'd be doing it, or the other guy for the job, he'd be doing it, or that woman across the street, she'd be doing it. Your vote to get him in didn't matter, he's 1 guy out of a bunch of people who could be doing the job, and they'd all be having the same exact job/limitations (and bribes, in this case). Your vote didn't matter, you got the guy you "like" in there doing the job, but he's not doing anything more than the other person you would have voted in.
You don't have to look far to see who "they" are that run this country. They are big business interest and large corporations that lobby for the majority of laws/bills/acts that we have. We have an act going through right now that has the possibility of shutting down YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc, and the only reason this act is being even discussed is because the movie industry wants it done, and they bribed congress to get the act through before we even knew what was going on. This act is big news and is being discussed all over the place, it's a very shady (nothing new) act of the government taking bribes from big business to push through the laws they personally want.
The act they are tying to pass (Protect IP), will shut down a large, fresh, new business industry on the internet. Video/information websites that have produced tons of cash flow and job interest, are going to be shut down by this act. This act will kill a fresh, new, rising business industry. Isn't the government supposed to be creating new jobs, not destroying them? Which is the point, it doesn't matter what the government is "supposed" to do, what matters is big business lobbyists bribing them to pass laws that they want for personal greed, even if it damages an upcoming, fresh business industry for people to make money/get jobs/start small businesses.
You can vote and I'm sure it might feel good to have a feeling like your vote matters and that you're making a difference, this is why many people vote. However, the wall is right in front of you and you don't have to throw a rock very far before the rock hits it.
As for my age, there are people much older than I that share the same views. It's just about what you see and what you don't.
__________________
MMAF Hall of Fame Inductee
Debater of the Year - 2009
MMAF Graphics Champion
2012 Republican Presidential Nominee
I think that guy is way too brainwashed from a silly book out there..
Linear Mode
