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Old 08-31-2011, 11:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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My parents sent me to a privet christian school for six years and during that time I studied the bible, hell it was a class we got graded on and to this day none of it rings true.

Is god real? Thats a door of perception and wile Im still open to the idea god is real, the bible is bs.

I know Im not providing arguments but thats because I learned long ago if someone has faith in something that cant be proven how can you provide a argument that they will except? Its just a waist of time for both people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP53b...layer_embedded
If you watch this video on the scale of the universe and still think creation is by intelligent design then I dont think I can help you.

Just in the milkyway alone over the past four years they have found two hundred and some planets in the goldilocks zone, this means there are millions of planets out there that can support life, we have also mapped the human genome and can prove evolution on a micro and a macro scale to me this has much more merit than a really old book that has huge holes in its history.

This is a good argument and its funny you should watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVTESXkUlVY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExAw4hIhRIU
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:52 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xbrokenshieldx View Post
Very abstract thinking here, and far too complex for my rather simple mind . I am not overly familiar with the science on the universe, dark matter, etc. Going back to the topic, and to the origin of humans (which I know you will say is inseparable from the origins of the universe, and I agree), the question I am interested in addressing, and one that is particularly relevant to the topic of the thread, is where did man come from?

As a proponent of science I will never say that it is 100% impossible that God does not exist. Such a statement goes against everything I believe in in science. But I can say it is almost certain that He/She does not exist. And I do not believe that is it "just as likely" that a bearded man in the cosmos created man (and the Earth) as it is that these things developed in the ways accepted by the scientific community (evolution, and even a "big bang" type event). There are a lot of things that we don't know, and maybe our views on the origins of the universe will change considerably over time. But it is much more likely, at this time, that the universe started with a big bang that it is that God created it for the purpose of creating man in His image.
Cant disagree with your point of view here. Its a valid opinion.

As to the origins of man, if I can stop with the seriousness and hazard a guess, I think its more complicated then Darwin suggests. There are so many coincidences regards our existence and earth, that im inclined to believe something otherworldly is involved. For example, the fact that *ALL* minerals and elements that exist in the periodic table are present here on earth. Every god damn thing! Every element that exists in the universe that we can detect is here. Every meteorite that lands here is made of compounds that are already here. I find that amazing! Also, that we have a single moon and sun, and when standing on earth and looking at them, they are EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE! What are the odds of either of these things happening let alone both!

The way that cultures from around the globe all built pyramids at the same time! Even though they were supposedly unconnected. Cosmic Resonance as its called by some. Its all amazing shit that is as yet unexplained.

I dont know the truth... but I believe there's some magical shit going down on this planet regards humans and their evolution.

I'll leave my argument there for now! I'm in a good mood! I appreciate the debate chaps.
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Old 08-31-2011, 01:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The evolution of the human race is my evidence. See my above post. To summarize... if we can go from cavemen to technologically advanced ( relatively speaking ) in 10000 years, which is an absurdly small amount of time, universally... Then what of the possibilities of life that was advanced over a million years ago. We know it must be out there, somewhere, right? There is no way Im going to believe the whole god damn universe is evolving in tandem with the human race, technology wise. No way. If it is, then I challenge science to explain that?!
Neither agreeing with you nor disagreeing with you here, just throwing something out there.

How do we know that other civilisations that exist/could have existed are not as destructive as us humans. War is human nature, so why not the nature of any other advanced civilisation?

For all we know, every civilisation that has ever existed could have waged war on each other, like we humans do, and wiped themselves out? After all, we're not too far from that outcome. One crazy leader pressing the big red button and the shit could hit the fan and before you know it, hundreds of red buttons are being pressed and the planet is turned into an inhospitable wreck of nuclear fallout.

Not to mention that as technology advances, so does the deadliness of armoury.

You see what i'm getting at?
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:15 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Lone Wolf View Post
Neither agreeing with you nor disagreeing with you here, just throwing something out there.

How do we know that other civilisations that exist/could have existed are not as destructive as us humans. War is human nature, so why not the nature of any other advanced civilisation?

For all we know, every civilisation that has ever existed could have waged war on each other, like we humans do, and wiped themselves out? After all, we're not too far from that outcome. One crazy leader pressing the big red button and the shit could hit the fan and before you know it, hundreds of red buttons are being pressed and the planet is turned into an inhospitable wreck of nuclear fallout.

Not to mention that as technology advances, so does the deadliness of armoury.

You see what i'm getting at?
All very true. But, if the universe is as obscenely large as suggested by science, there is every likelihood of all kinds of civilizations. Some human like... some so far away from human like that we cant see, hear or detect them. There could be life that exists within a millisecond. Likewise, there could be life where 1000 of our years is but a blip to them. My point is, that even though I agree there are probably other civilizations out there with tendencies similar to humans, eg, like to develop weapons and kick shit out of each other.... there are others that operate in a completely different way. There must be trillions of lifeforms types. Not all of them will be fighting against each other. For all we know, the need to compete and fight could be a human condition. Theres no way of knowing. This shit is so far away, we will NEVER get to go and see it. Not as long as humans are un-united and as war with themselves.

IF "god" is out there... I think he/she/it is nothing more than other universal life. Its that simple to me. However, I still feel the reality is nowhere near the bastard bullshit that organized religion worships blindly. They all need their heads examining.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Just thought I'd continue this discussion as I find it very interesting.

I am agnostic in the sense that I am unsure if there is an actual deity that is responsible for the creation of our universe and the operation of our cosmos and physics. From what I understand, there is no way to prove that a God, or Gods do or do not exist.

However, as most people on this forum know, I do not believe in God in a religous sentiment.

To me at least, if God is supposed to be all-knowing, then he must know the future. If God knows the future, then to me there seems to be no freedom of choice. If we don't really have that freedom of coice then, to me it seems wrong to condemn those of us who are "non-believers" to hell. If God is supposed to be all-loving and morally just, then why would he condemn the "non-believers" to suffer for all eternity in the afterlife, despite having no physical evidence that he or she even exists? To me, a "perfect God" wouldn't make such a contradiction.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:34 PM   #36 (permalink)
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God is a defense mechanism created by a primitive human who was insecure about the fact that he didn't know where he came from, so he created god.
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:26 PM   #37 (permalink)
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This thread, this argument is fatally flawed from the get go. It simply is not a question of are the Atheists right or are the Christians right. Both (all of us) are equally clueless to the true nature of the Universe.

I have a simple belief. I believe that there is too much beauty in the world for it to be an accident. there is too much ugly in the world for me to believe that religion has a clue.


did man create God??? I don't know... but there is no doubt that man created religion.
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Old 09-29-2011, 04:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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This thread, this argument is fatally flawed from the get go. It simply is not a question of are the Atheists right or are the Christians right. Both (all of us) are equally clueless to the true nature of the Universe.

I have a simple belief. I believe that there is too much beauty in the world for it to be an accident. there is too much ugly in the world for me to believe that religion has a clue.


did man create God??? I don't know... but there is no doubt that man created religion.
Man created his human god, the god we all know, but not the real god, if in fact there is one which there isn't
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:17 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Just let us assume for a second that there really is someone like "God" out there Spoken..

if that would Really be the case.. don't you think that he must be the Devil then?
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:17 PM   #40 (permalink)
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joeymarvelous has a little shameless behaviour in the past
"What makes the big bang so interesting is that is represents the origin of the universe from literally nothing. For all matter and energy, space and time all came in to being at the big bang."

This is simply wrong. All of the matter/energy that exists now already existed at the big bang, compressed to a singularity as small as a Plank Unit. This is the size where Newtonian physics breaks down and Quantum physics becomes the rule, and our understanding of Quantum physics is still in it's infancy, hence our relative confusion at what took place before the big bang. The Universe having always existed before this is no less plausable than the Universe having a definite beginning. One hypothesis that I find plausible is that the total matter/energy in the Universe is exactly the amount necessary to make a super black hole go big bang, and the Universe has been through a cycle of "big bang, big crunch" for an indeterminate amount of "time" Time is in quotations as time itself is a function of space, and with all the space contracted, the term loses meaning.

" If God doesn't exist, than objective moral values Also don't exist. By objective moral values I mean moral values which are valid and binding whether we believe in them or not."

Ethics is based objectively upon the relative well being and suffering that our actions affect in others. By divorcing morality from this paradigm in proclaiming in Leviticus that homosexuality is immoral and slavery is acceptable, the bible proves itself the morally bankrupt.
The religious view will appeal to the afterlife to justify its impact upon relative well being and suffering, but the fact is that the brain is the only known conduit of conciousness. After the brain is dead, there is no conciousness. After parts of the brain are dead, conciousness is utterly altered. This shows that the soul is imaginary, and thus the afterlife.
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