[Pyros]

I too want Alvarez to win the GP, and he probably can do it. The winner of the GP would be the #1 LW in you opinion?

[+Shogun+]

Originally Posted by Pyros

I too want Alvarez to win the GP, and he probably can do it. The winner of the GP would be the #1 LW in you opinion?

Nope. BJ holds that spot pretty firmly in my eyes.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

Nope. BJ holds that spot pretty firmly in my eyes.

But he has only beat 2 top 10 LWs recently (Sherk and Stevenson) while the winner of the GP, let's say if it's Aoki, would have beat 2 top 10 fighters too and was already ranked pretty high in most rankings.

[+Shogun+]

Originally Posted by Pyros

But he has only beat 2 top 10 LWs recently (Sherk and Stevenson) while the winner of the GP, let's say if it's Aoki, would have beat 2 top 10 fighters too and was already ranked pretty high in most rankings.

I just think BJ would kick their asses, thus I have BJ ahead. Also, I think he faced tougher competition. Sherk alone is a big accomplishment at LW. I honestly don't care much at all for Aoki or JZ or Kawajiri. I do think Alvarez is top 10 and I think he will win the GP to push himself somewhere into the top 5.

[Pyros]

I hope Alvarez wins too but Aoki is the most probable winner and if he does win, he would have beat JZ (top 5) and Kawajiri/Alvarez (Top 10) plus Caol Uno who is a solid competitor.

[TheNegation]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

I just think BJ would kick their asses, thus I have BJ ahead. Also, I think he faced tougher competition. Sherk alone is a big accomplishment at LW. I honestly don't care much at all for Aoki or JZ or Kawajiri. I do think Alvarez is top 10 and I think he will win the GP to push himself somewhere into the top 5.

Ranking BJ no. 1 over the winner of this GP is crazy.

BJs biggest accomplishment recently was Sherk, the winner will have beaten more higher ranked opponents.

Even Sherk....the man has two wins in as many years at LW, one tarnished by Steroid use.

Look at JZs record, look at Aokis. Particularly, if Aoki goes on to win this, there can be no question that he should be ranked higher than BJ.

[+Shogun+]

Originally Posted by TheNegation

Ranking BJ no. 1 over the winner of this GP is crazy.

BJs biggest accomplishment recently was Sherk, the winner will have beaten more higher ranked opponents.

Even Sherk....the man has two wins in as many years at LW, one tarnished by Steroid use.

Look at JZs record, look at Aokis. Particularly, if Aoki goes on to win this, there can be no question that he should be ranked higher than BJ.

I really don't give a rats ass about records, a guy can be 50-6-1 (just came up with that off the top of my head), but if he hasn't faced top competition, then I really don't care. JZ isn't top 5 in MY book, Aoki is almost top 5. Kawajiri is pretty good, hell, I'd probably rank him above both JZ and Aoki, he's faced better opponents. Who has JZ beaten? The only good fighter he has beaten is Shaolin. Maybe Uno. Aoki... He's beaten JZ, a washed up Hansen that is 4-5 since the end of 2005 and Kikuchi who I think is meh.

You can think what you want about Sherk, but the dudes a beast at LW, with or without roids, and BJ schooled him. You can't discredit BJ's (or Sherk's) past accomplishments either, just because he's in a different weight division. If anything, they just make him look way better, since he's in a LIGHTER weight division.

Yes I hug BJ's nuts, but not I'm not blinded by them. The dude has skills.

[TheNegation]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

I really don't give a rats ass about records, a guy can be 50-6-1 (just came up with that off the top of my head), but if he hasn't faced top competition, then I really don't care. JZ isn't top 5 in MY book, Aoki is almost top 5. Kawajiri is pretty good, hell, I'd probably rank him above both JZ and Aoki, he's faced better opponents. Who has JZ beaten? The only good fighter he has beaten is Shaolin. Maybe Uno. Aoki... He's beaten JZ, a washed up Hansen that is 4-5 since the end of 2005 and Kikuchi who I think is meh.

You can think what you want about Sherk, but the dudes a beast at LW, with or without roids, and BJ schooled him. You can't discredit BJ's (or Sherk's) past accomplishments either, just because he's in a different weight division. If anything, they just make him look way better, since he's in a LIGHTER weight division.

Yes I hug BJ's nuts, but not I'm not blinded by them. The dude has skills.

Hah. Alright......
JZ has beaten Shaolin, Dida and Uno. Good fighters.
Aoki hasn't lost since 2005, and has beaten JZ, Kikuchi(twice), Jason Black, Hansen who had losses but only to top competition in Sakurai and Kawajiri and had beaten Azeredo. If he wins the GP, he wil lhave also beaten Uno and either Alvarez or Kawajiri.

Now, BJ beat Sherk, who as I said has two wins at LW in two years, one where he tested positive for roids, and JoeDaddy who wasn't exactly top 5. Oh yeah he also beat an old washed up Pulver.

How exactly, if Aoki wins the GP, will BJ have beaten more top competition? Going by the MMAforum rankings, Aoki will have beaten exactly twice as many top 10 competitiors. So will Alvarez or Kawajiri if they win.

Don't try to bring up a facing top competition argument when defending BJ man.........

Actually, I shouldn't obviously be counting the fights Aoki had where he fought at WW, those don't affect the rankings. They affect P4P, but not LW.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by TheNegation

Hah. Alright......
JZ has beaten Shaolin, Dida and Uno. Good fighters.
Aoki hasn't lost since 2005, and has beaten JZ, Kikuchi(twice), Jason Black, Hansen who had losses but only to top competition in Sakurai and Kawajiri and had beaten Azeredo. If he wins the GP, he wil lhave also beaten Uno and either Alvarez or Kawajiri.

Now, BJ beat Sherk, who as I said has two wins at LW in two years, one where he tested positive for roids, and JoeDaddy who wasn't exactly top 5. Oh yeah he also beat an old washed up Pulver.

How exactly, if Aoki wins the GP, will BJ have beaten more top competition? Going by the MMAforum rankings, Aoki will have beaten exactly twice as many top 10 competitiors. So will Alvarez or Kawajiri if they win.

Don't try to bring up a facing top competition argument when defending BJ man.........

You summed it up better than me, thanks. Shogun, if JZ is not top 5 to you, may I ask you who is in the LW division?

[+Shogun+]

Originally Posted by TheNegation

Hah. Alright......
JZ has beaten Shaolin, Dida and Uno. Good fighters.
Aoki hasn't lost since 2005, and has beaten JZ, Kikuchi(twice), Jason Black, Hansen who had losses but only to top competition in Sakurai and Kawajiri and had beaten Azeredo. If he wins the GP, he wil lhave also beaten Uno and either Alvarez or Kawajiri.

Now, BJ beat Sherk, who as I said has two wins at LW in two years, one where he tested positive for roids, and JoeDaddy who wasn't exactly top 5. Oh yeah he also beat an old washed up Pulver.

How exactly, if Aoki wins the GP, will BJ have beaten more
top competition? Going by the MMAforum rankings, Aoki will have beaten exactly twice as many top 10 competitiors. So will Alvarez or Kawajiri if they win.

Don't try to bring up a facing top competition argument when defending BJ man.........

Actually, I shouldn't obviously be counting the fights Aoki had where he fought at WW, those don't affect the rankings. They affect P4P, but not LW.

I count their accomplishments at other weight classes, I just do. No reason not to, it was a higher weight class. You see so many highly touted guys at a higher weight class come into a lower weight class and automatically get a title shot or are near contention, so if thats how organizations look at it, then I will too.

I don't consider Kikuchi or Black (especially Black) top competition. Azeredo is exciting as hell to watch, but he isn't great either. I think Sherk would kill all of the above fighters, and I have him higher ranked than all the aforementioned. BJ beat him convincingly, and tore apart Joe Stevenson who was on an absolute tear before the Penn fight.

@Pyros, here is my top 10.

BJ Penn
Sean Sherk
Takanori Gomi
Tatsuya Kawajiri
Shinya Aoki
Kenny Florian
Gesias Calvancante
Joe Stevenson
Eddie Alvarez
Gilbert Melendez

Thats a rough list off the top of my head.