[Pyros]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

I count their accomplishments at other weight classes, I just do. No reason not to, it was a higher weight class. You see so many highly touted guys at a higher weight class come into a lower weight class and automatically get a title shot or are near contention, so if thats how organizations look at it, then I will too.

I don't consider Kikuchi or Black (especially Black) top competition. Azeredo is exciting as hell to watch, but he isn't great either. I think Sherk would kill all of the above fighters, and I have him higher ranked than all the aforementioned. BJ beat him convincingly, and tore apart Joe Stevenson who was on an absolute tear before the Penn fight.

@Pyros, here is my top 10.

BJ Penn
Sean Sherk
Takanori Gomi
Tatsuya Kawajiri
Shinya Aoki
Kenny Florian
Gesias Calvancante
Joe Stevenson
Eddie Alvarez
Gilbert Melendez

Thats a rough list off the top of my head.

What has Sean Sherk done to deserve being second? Kenny Florian over JZ? Come on.

[TheNegation]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

I count their accomplishments at other weight classes, I just do. No reason not to, it was a higher weight class. You see so many highly touted guys at a higher weight class come into a lower weight class and automatically get a title shot or are near contention, so if thats how organizations look at it, then I will too.

That makes no sense. They are called the LW rankings for a reason. Fighters accomplishments at other weights have nothing to do with it.
Did BJ move up your WW rankings because of what he accomplished at LW recenlty?

I don't consider Kikuchi or Black (especially Black) top competition. Azeredo is exciting as hell to watch, but he isn't great either. I think Sherk would kill all of the above fighters, and I have him higher ranked than all the aforementioned. BJ beat him convincingly, and tore apart Joe Stevenson who was on an absolute tear before the Penn fight.

And Pellogrino, Mishima and Guillard are the cream of the crop? Shaolin, Dida and Uno > Those guys. And Aoki beat JZ convincingly. If he also beats Uno and either Kawajiri or Alvarez, you'd be retarded not to see he'd accomplished more at LW than BJ.

@Pyros, here is my top 10.

BJ Penn
Sean Sherk
Takanori Gomi
Tatsuya Kawajiri
Shinya Aoki
Kenny Florian
Gesias Calvancante
Joe Stevenson
Eddie Alvarez
Gilbert Melendez

Thats a rough list off the top of my head.

What the hell has Gomi done recently to be ranked top 3?

[+Shogun+]

Dida, lol. Wtf has he done. Hes a MMA noob, all he has is power in his hands, nothing else. Uno is past his prime, until he proves otherwise by advancing further in the GP. Pelligrino is a great fighter. Shaolin hasn't done anything since 2004.

Here is BJ's major LW accomplishments:
Sherk
Serra
Gomi
Uno (In his prime)
Thomas (In his prime)
Joe Stevenson
Florian/Huerta (Assuming he wins)

Here are Aoki's if he beats Uno and Alvarez or Kawajiri:
JZ
Uno (Past his prime and assuming he wins)
Kikuchi 2x (Bleh)
Hansen (Won't say past his prime, since he's young... but not looking good since 2005)
Alvarez/Kawajiri (Assuming he wins)

BJ's list looks way more impressive to me.

And with Gomi, what HASN'T he done? He beat everyone except Penn and Diaz, who was doped up, much larger than him and fought a jetlagged Gomi.

Pyros, to me Florian has done more recently and has looked better, finishing his last four fights (I think he'll beat Huerta and give BJ a tough fight for the title).

Rankings are all pretty much personal preference and how you view things. I'm not saying you guys are totally wrong and I'm totally right. This is just my P.O.V.

[TheNegation]

You're contradicting yourself. Gomi hasn't done shit in ages(note the recently in my post) yet you rank Florian for his recent accomplishments.
Gomis last big win was two damn years ago.

Aoki has done way, way more recently than BJ, hence he should be ranked higher.

Unos demise has been greatly exaggerated, as his whomping of Ishida, a great fighter who beat your no. 10 showed.

I don't generally care too much for things that happened 5 and 7 years ago when I look at my rankings.

You have shown you simply have no ida how people are ranked I'm afraid.

[+Shogun+]

Double

Originally Posted by TheNegation

You're contradicting yourself. Gomi hasn't done shit in ages(note the recently in my post) yet you rank Florian for his recent accomplishments.
Gomis last big win was two damn years ago.

Aoki has done way, way more recently than BJ, hence he should be ranked higher.

Unos demise has been greatly exaggerated, as his whomping of Ishida, a great fighter who beat your no. 10 showed.

I don't generally care too much for things that happened 5 and 7 years ago when I look at my rankings.

You have shown you simply have no ida how people are ranked I'm afraid.

I've said before, these are my personal rankings.

WTF has Aoki done recently? He beat JZ and a bleh Hansen, that's it. Gomi beat Ludwig, and before the NC to Diaz, he beat Ishida and Aurelio. I think Gomi would whomp Aoki. BJ beat (DOMINATED) Sherk and Stevenson, which is more impressive to me than JZ and a bleh Hansen.

[TheNegation]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

I've said before, these are my personal rankings.

WTF has Aoki done recently? He beat JZ and a bleh Hansen, that's it. Gomi beat Ludwig, and before the NC to Diaz, he beat Ishida and Aurelio. I think Gomi would whomp Aoki.

Aoki has beaten a lot of solid competition and some great fighters, and if he wins the GP he will have beaten even more great fighters. Whether I believe Gomi would kick the shit out of him(which I do) is irrelevant, as Gomi has done ntohing of note recently.
This whole argument started over whether the winner of the GP shouldbe ranked higher.

Rankings have noithing to do with Personal opinions on fighters, they have to do with accomplishments.

For instance, most sensible now have Nog over Fedor, because Sylvia and Herring > Choi and Lindland.
Do we believe Nog will beat Fedor? No, but he still deserves to be ranked higher.

[+Shogun+]

Originally Posted by TheNegation

Aoki has beaten a lot of solid competition and some great fighters, and if he wins the GP he will have beaten even more great fighters. Whether I believe Gomi would kick the shit out of him(which I do) is irrelevant, as Gomi has done ntohing of note recently.
This whole argument started over whether the winner of the GP shouldbe ranked higher.

Rankings have noithing to do with Personal opinions on fighters, they have to do with accomplishments.

For instance, most sensible now have Nog over Fedor, because Sylvia and Herring > Choi and Lindland.
Do we believe Nog will beat Fedor? No, but he still deserves to be ranked higher.

The question was, if ALVAREZ won, would he be ranked #1 at LW. And I don't think he would be, he'd probably be my #2.

The rankings I had, showed how I felt the division currently was ranked, as Pyros asked.

As for Gomi, I listed his recent accomplishments, and they are greater than Aoki's IMHO. Also, our definitions of solid competition differ, as I think most of Aoki's opponents suck, thats what I mean by personal point of view.

[TheNegation]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

The question was, if ALVAREZ won, would he be ranked #1 at LW. And I don't think he would be, he'd probably be my #2.

The rankings I had, showed how I felt the division currently was ranked, as Pyros asked.

As for Gomi, I listed his recent accomplishments, and they are greater than Aoki's IMHO. Also, our definitions of solid competition differ, as I think most of Aoki's opponents suck, thats what I mean by personal point of view.

Do you want me to go back and quote the thread for you, or shall you go back and read it yourself?



You have to go back to 2006 to find Gomis last big wins, and then they were Ishida, Aurelio and Baron. Thats not very recent at all.

Hansen and JZ don't suck, and if Aok wins the GP he wil;l have two further big wins under his belt. Therefore he would be higher than Bj or Gomi, and it wouldn't be close.

[+Shogun+]

Originally Posted by TheNegation

Do you want me to go back and quote the thread for you, or shall you go back and read it yourself?



You have to go back to 2006 to find Gomis last big wins, and then they were Ishida, Aurelio and Baron. Thats not very recent at all.

Hansen and JZ don't suck, and if Aok wins the GP he wil;l have two further big wins under his belt. Therefore he would be higher than Bj or Gomi, and it wouldn't be close.

Aoki's win over Hansen was in 06, so I guess you can't count that either. So all he has is JZ, a fighter that I really don't care for or think accomplished much.

As far as the question goes, I misread it and my apologies. Since I now just re-read it, my answer would be "It depends on who wins it."

Oh yeah. I never said Hansen and JZ suck. The vast majority of Aoki's competition however, does.

[TheNegation]

Originally Posted by +Shogun+

Aoki's win over Hansen was in 06, so I guess you can't count that either. So all he has is JZ, a fighter that I really don't care for or think accomplished much.

As far as the question goes, I misread it and my apologies. Since I now just re-read it, my answer would be "It depends on who wins it."

Oh yeah. I never said Hansen and JZ suck. The vast majority of Aoki's competition however, does.

I only counted it as you counted Gomis wins in 06.

Look we are going to have to agree to disagree, because clearly JZ is a great fighte, and I feel a win over him, Uno and either Alvarez or Kawajiri definately would put you above BJ. I would say whoever wins the GP should be above BJ, they will simply have done more. BJs got sherk, and thats all he has really got IMO, I never rankd Joe as top 10.