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Old 04-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Victor Conte Audio Clip: TRT is Legal Steriods in MMA



http://youtu.be/2jKSO3w8QgE

Last edited by TheNinja : 04-09-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No kidding. What do people think TRT is? It is pure Testosterone. And it is probably the most common steroid: Testosterone Ethanate. People are under the illusion that just because Doctor delivers it, it is something different. It is not.

There is so much misinformation out there it boggles the mind.

I will admit, right here and now, that I have indeed done several cycles of anabolic steroids. Various forms of Testosterone, from Ethanate, to Cypionate, to Propionate. The only real difference between them is the shelf-life. All of them will convert to Estrogen and crush your natural Test production without the proper PCT (Post Cycle Therapy).

I have gotten, sold, and profited off of Steroids in the past as well. I have researched anabolic steroids for 15 years. The problem...and it's always the problem, is Abuse and lack of knowledge. People never want to hear about PCT...or they ask if they can just get it later. This is where things go wrong for most people. This is why so many require TRT.

But I believe there is another group seeking TRT. The group that got wise as to how the system works. You see, there are no government guidelines as to what a Low Test Count is. It is left up to Doctor discretion. There are a dozen ways to show up with a low test count. And make no mistake, that Doctor wants you to have a so-called low Test ratio. Many will give you a take-home piss test. How do you think that works out? Have the wife or girlfriend piss for you? Maybe.

We have a local Doctor in town that everyone goes to for TRT and even Clomid. Legally of course. It's just a "known" thing.

Now, about the 6:1 ratio Nevada uses. First of all, the International ratio is 4:1. It does not matter though, because the average Male has a .75/1:1 ratio. Possibly a 1.3:1 ratio. Nobody...and I mean Nobody is 2:1. Not without help. So as you can see the test the commissions give is designed to allow you to "cheat". They are saying: we know you are going to cheat, we are just going to determine how much. When you come in above 6:1, you have absolutely no excuse. None! They can spin it however they like, but it is physically impossible to be 2:1 or higher without Testosterone being put into you body. In the end, they do not want to catch people using it. If they did, they would lower to at least 2:1. But if they did that, there would be nobody left in Professional Sports.

Athletes do and always will use anabolic steroids and human growth hormone. And the Commissions know it, and they allow it. They pop a guy here and there to make it look legit, but they are allowing a 6:1 Testosterone to Epitestosterone Ratio. One should be able to utilize a little commonsense here and see it for what it is. One either accepts it and continues to enjoy the show or they stop watching professional sports. It is entertainment...nothing more and nothing less. Where confusion sets in, is when people try to attach words like, honor, integrity, and pride to professional sports. When there is Money and Fame involved, people will always seek the advantage at any cost. That my friends, is human nature. And we are not immune.

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Old 04-09-2012, 06:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaVoK View Post
No kidding. What do people think TRT is? It is pure Testosterone. And it is probably the most common steroid: Testosterone Ethanate. People are under the illusion that just because Doctor delivers it, it is something different. It is not.

There is so much misinformation out there it boggles the mind.

I will admit, right here and now, that I have indeed done several cycles of anabolic steroids. Various forms of Testosterone, from Ethanate, to Cypionate, to Propionate. The only real difference between them is the shelf-life. All of them will convert to Estrogen and crush your natural Test production without the proper PCT (Post Cycle Therapy).

I have gotten, sold, and profited off of Steroids in the past as well. I have researched anabolic steroids for 15 years. The problem...and it's always the problem, is Abuse and lack of knowledge. People never want to hear about PCT...or they ask if they can just get it later. This is where things go wrong for most people. This is why so many require TRT.

But I believe there is another group seeking TRT. The group that got wise as to how the system works. You see, there are no government guidelines as to what a Low Test Count is. It is left up to Doctor discretion. There are a dozen ways to show up with a low test count. And make no mistake, that Doctor wants you to have a so-called low Test ratio. Many will give you a take-home piss test. How do you think that works out? Have the wife or girlfriend piss for you? Maybe.

We have a local Doctor in town that everyone goes to for TRT and even Clomid. Legally of course. It's just a "known" thing.

Now, about the 6:1 ratio Nevada uses. First of all, the International ratio is 4:1. It does not matter though, because the average Male has a .75/1:1 ratio. Possibly a 1.3:1 ratio. Nobody...and I mean Nobody is 2:1. Not without help. So as you can see the test the commissions give is designed to allow you to "cheat". They are saying: we know you are going to cheat, we are just going to determine how much. When you come in above 6:1, you have absolutely no excuse. None! They can spin it however they like, but it is physically impossible to be 2:1 or higher without Testosterone being put into you body. In the end, they do not want to catch people using it. If they did, they would lower to at least 2:1. But if they did that, there would be nobody left in Professional Sports.

Athletes do and always will use anabolic steroids and human growth hormone. And the Commissions know it, and they allow it. They pop a guy here and there to make it look legit, but they are allowing a 6:1 Testosterone to Epitestosterone Ratio. One should be able to utilize a little commonsense here and see it for what it is. One either accepts it and continues to enjoy the show or they stop watching professional sports. It is entertainment...nothing more and nothing less. Where confusion sets in, is when people try to attach words like, honor, integrity, and pride to professional sports. When there is Money and Fame involved, people will always seek the advantage at any cost. That my friends, is human nature. And we are not immune.
I agree with this. What i also find funny is that the commission allows 6:1 T:E to allow 'freak' athletes that have 6:1 T:E naturally 0.1% of people. However i bet the doctors dont give the athletes on TRT a normal '1:1 or 2:1' TRT but the maximum 6:1. Meaning even tho its the max allowed it still gives them an advantage over guys not using it! All i can say is no wonder everyone wants to get on it! It really is just allowed steroids.

No wonder randy and dan can/could fight to such a late age! at 40plus with more testosterone then 5 teenagers!
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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As far as sports go, is this kind of treatment only happening in MMA?
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaVoK View Post
Now, about the 6:1 ratio Nevada uses. First of all, the International ratio is 4:1. It does not matter though, because the average Male has a .75/1:1 ratio. Possibly a 1.3:1 ratio. Nobody...and I mean Nobody is 2:1. Not without help. So as you can see the test the commissions give is designed to allow you to "cheat". They are saying: we know you are going to cheat, we are just going to determine how much. When you come in above 6:1, you have absolutely no excuse. None! They can spin it however they like, but it is physically impossible to be 2:1 or higher without Testosterone being put into you body. In the end, they do not want to catch people using it. If they did, they would lower to at least 2:1. But if they did that, there would be nobody left in Professional Sports.
Where did you get that information from? Because from what I've read, it is possible to have higher than a 2:1 T/E ratio naturally.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHawk View Post
Where did you get that information from? Because from what I've read, it is possible to have higher than a 2:1 T/E ratio naturally.
It is possible, but it is rare.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toroian View Post
I agree with this. What i also find funny is that the commission allows 6:1 T:E to allow 'freak' athletes that have 6:1 T:E naturally 0.1% of people. However i bet the doctors dont give the athletes on TRT a normal '1:1 or 2:1' TRT but the maximum 6:1. Meaning even tho its the max allowed it still gives them an advantage over guys not using it! All i can say is no wonder everyone wants to get on it! It really is just allowed steroids.

No wonder randy and dan can/could fight to such a late age! at 40plus with more testosterone then 5 teenagers!
If you are on testosterone, your T:E ratio will never be at 1:1 unless your normal ratio is really low. A doctor would concern themselves with your total and free testosterone levels, not your T:E ratio.

And I've never seen any evidence that Randy was on TRT. He never had a therapeutic use exemption for it. Not saying he was clean, but it's unfair to lump him in with confirmed cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
As far as sports go, is this kind of treatment only happening in MMA?
Not exclusively, but it is happening at a pretty high rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHawk View Post
Where did you get that information from? Because from what I've read, it is possible to have higher than a 2:1 T/E ratio naturally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheJu View Post
It is possible, but it is rare.
It's not really that rare.

Quote:
Between 2005 and 2009, 63 510 doping control urine samples were analyzed in the Cologne laboratory. A total of 1442 specimens (2.3%) showed a T/E > 4; 80 (5.5%) of which were tested positive by means of isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS); and most of which (68) originated from strength sport disciplines.
Source

At 4:1, the false positive rate was still 2.1 percent. Which makes sense. It was chosen because it's a little over two standard deviations above the mean T:E ratio. I've never seen an estimate of natural T:E ratios above 2:1, but it's certainly pretty high. At 3:1, it's something like 10 percent.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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So what you are saying is a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio is not rare? I think you are misguided.

Even the article that you cited says it is rare, less than 3% in a sample of ATHLETES and the VAST majority of those who had an elevated ratio where from streghth related sports.

A small percentage of athletes, which is a VERY small representation of the general population, tested higher than normal. That is rare I would say!
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheJu View Post
So what you are saying is a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio is not rare? I think you are misguided.

Even the article that you cited says it is rare, less than 3% in a sample of ATHLETES and the VAST majority of those who had an elevated ratio where from streghth related sports.

A small percentage of athletes, which is a VERY small representation of the general population, tested higher than normal. That is rare I would say!
No. Sorry for the confusion. In the beginning, HaVoK asserted that 2:1 T:E ratios were impossible without exogenous steroids, and then you agreeded with MikeHawk that they were possible but you also added rare. That's (the 2:1 ratio) what I was referring to as not being rare. I realize I mentioned both 4:1 and 3:1 ratios, so I guess that was a mistake, but I've never seen a study even use 2:1. 3:1 was the lowest. I guess we'd have to define rare to say if 3:1 and 4:1 ratios fit that description. But I certainly wouldn't say 2:1 is rare. I also feel I should clarify something first.

Athletes may be a small portion of the population, but I haven't seen evidence that their T:E ratio is a different from the normal population. By far the biggest determinant of a urinary T:E ratio is the presence of certain enzymes that act as catalysts in a reaction that allows T or E to change into T or E glucuronide. That is more water soluable, so it gets excreted in urine.

There are a bunch of genes that make these enzymes, mutations in those genes are common and can limit the production of those enzymes, and each enzyme affects the reactions of T and E at different rates.

So if you've got two good copies of the gene that makes the enzyme that works by far the best with T, your T:E ratio is going to be way higher than someone with two bad copies of the gene, regardless of how much T you're actually making.

For example in a study of 74 Korean men and 122 Swedish men (neither was a group of athletes) the average Swede had a testosterone level 25% higher than the Koreans. But two thirds of the Koreans had two bad copies of this gene, compared to less than 10% of the Swedes. So the average Swede's testosterone glucuronide in his urine was over 16 times that of the average Korean, despite their actual testosterone only being 25% higher.

Study.

Table of androgens in urine for the participants.

The study is pretty dry, but as you can see on the table, the average Swede's T:E ratio was 1.8:1 with 25th and 75th percentiles of 1:1 and 2.6:1.
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