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Old 07-18-2012, 01:40 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BlueLander View Post
That's messed up. I knew the judging was bad, but man I'm a casual fan at best and I seem to know more then most judges

Any chance retired fighters could maybe get jobs judging in the future?
Richardo Almeida is doing it right now, but there isn't any money in it. Guys want to go home and relax and run their gyms. So it's not enough money to make it worth while.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:42 AM   #22 (permalink)
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So now defense doesn't count anymore but takedowns still do? Not sure what to think of that.

They say defense is its own reward, why not takedowns?
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Have you heard the Joe Rogan story about he was talking to a judge and this guy told him he was working a fight and the fighter was working for a kimura and the judge(who he didn't name, but I guess works a lot of fights) next to him turned and said "what is he doing right now?" That kind of ignorance isn't going to be changed with criteria changes.
Yeah I have heard this and it's deplorable. Why can't you and I just be the judges? People say it's the worst job cos you always get a bad wrap but seriously, that would be an awesome job.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:04 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Something I'd like to add is that most refs do a good job except for one or two...heh...heh. It's a very tough job if you think about. You have to make the best possible judgement in a split second. Thing is we (fans) have all camera angles, the ref only has one even though he's close up.

Wonder how it'll effect future judging criteria. They still need the yellow card in play deducting 10% of the purse. I love that rule.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MRBRESK View Post
Yeah I have heard this and it's deplorable. Why can't you and I just be the judges? People say it's the worst job cos you always get a bad wrap but seriously, that would be an awesome job.
I don't know how good or not it would be. But it is definitely a thankless job. The only time they really get talked about is when they **** up. I mean the only judge I know off hand is Cecil Peoples, why? Because he's horriawful bad. I can name a few others, but name me a good judge off the top of your head. Honestly they only get talked about and praised in MMA circles for doing a good job because they so often **** up. If they weren't as bad as they are, you would never read "Great judging tonight"

Also ex-fighters aren't really a perfect solution. Sure they will know what's happening, but they are just as biased. I'm pretty sure if Rampage Jackson and Damien Maia watched a round of back and forth action, ground, clinch and striking they would score it differently. Richardo Almedia(SP) got his first big judge spot. It was the Kos v Hendricks fight, he was the only one to score it for Kos. So make what you will of that.

Not to be that guy, but honestly you know who was a great judge. Eddie Bravo, does anyone remember when he did the unoffical scorecard thing for the ufc a long time ago. I heard him talk about the way he judged fights once and I thought his system was the best. He would take notes of just about everything that way when a round ended he wouldn't forget what had happened or if he did he could read it before he scored the round. It sounded great to me, I forget sometimes what has happened at the beginning of a round and am guilty of scoring a round to a guy who steals it late when it probably should have gone the other way, so judges probably do it a lot too. There is a reason "stealing rounds" is a legit thing.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:01 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Life B Ez View Post
Also ex-fighters aren't really a perfect solution. Sure they will know what's happening, but they are just as biased. I'm pretty sure if Rampage Jackson and Damien Maia watched a round of back and forth action, ground, clinch and striking they would score it differently. Richardo Almedia(SP) got his first big judge spot. It was the Kos v Hendricks fight, he was the only one to score it for Kos. So make what you will of that.

Not to be that guy, but honestly you know who was a great judge. Eddie Bravo, does anyone remember when he did the unoffical scorecard thing for the ufc a long time ago. I heard him talk about the way he judged fights once and I thought his system was the best. He would take notes of just about everything that way when a round ended he wouldn't forget what had happened or if he did he could read it before he scored the round. It sounded great to me, I forget sometimes what has happened at the beginning of a round and am guilty of scoring a round to a guy who steals it late when it probably should have gone the other way, so judges probably do it a lot too. There is a reason "stealing rounds" is a legit thing.
Good points about the ex fighters..

And yeah Eddie Bravo would be a great judge. When guys like Soti are on their backs they shouldn't be losing rounds, they are most often in mission control or meat hook and throwing strikes while neutralising their opponents offence.

As long as he's not biased towards BJJ then he'd be excellent. Do you remember which fights he judged? I'm pretty sure he commentated a card once a while ago aswell (might be wrong).
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:21 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MRBRESK View Post
Good points about the ex fighters..

And yeah Eddie Bravo would be a great judge. When guys like Soti are on their backs they shouldn't be losing rounds, they are most often in mission control or meat hook and throwing strikes while neutralising their opponents offence.

As long as he's not biased towards BJJ then he'd be excellent. Do you remember which fights he judged? I'm pretty sure he commentated a card once a while ago aswell (might be wrong).
That's the point though, Eddie however hard he might try you're going to be biased.

For example, let's say fighter A comes out, rocks fighter B and is beating him up, he almost finishes him, but fighter B survives. All this happened in the first minute, then the fight stays standing until minute with evenly exchanged combos. At the three minute mark fighter B gets a take down, passes guard gets mount, but doesn't do a lot of damage. Fighter A escapes and gets back to his feet at the two minute mark. Then at the one minute mark fighter A gets a take down, but immediately gets caught in a triangle/armbar. They fight until the very last second and finally Fighter A escapes.

Now, how do you score that? They both have a take down, the striker got his best possible outcome with a win, an almost TKO, and Fighter B the grappler got his best possible outcome, a guard pass dominate position and an almost sub. So it's even, in an ideal world that's a 10-10. Now to refer back to my earlier post, if the judge is Rampage, that round goes to fighter A, if it's Maia that went to Fighter B.

On Eddie Bravo, I think it was a few UFC in the 60s, but I can't say for sure I could be way off, but I feel like that's around where it was. He did guest commentary and unoffical scorecards. The he moved to the production truck. If he wasn't cornering a fighter he would tell the guys which angles to use so that you could see the grappling and he would show them what to show for subs and what not. I think he quit that job around UFC 115 or 116 because there were starting to be so many shows and he couldn't be at his schools.
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:01 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Life B Ez View Post
That's the point though, Eddie however hard he might try you're going to be biased.

For example, let's say fighter A comes out, rocks fighter B and is beating him up, he almost finishes him, but fighter B survives. All this happened in the first minute, then the fight stays standing until minute with evenly exchanged combos. At the three minute mark fighter B gets a take down, passes guard gets mount, but doesn't do a lot of damage. Fighter A escapes and gets back to his feet at the two minute mark. Then at the one minute mark fighter A gets a take down, but immediately gets caught in a triangle/armbar. They fight until the very last second and finally Fighter A escapes.

Now, how do you score that? They both have a take down, the striker got his best possible outcome with a win, an almost TKO, and Fighter B the grappler got his best possible outcome, a guard pass dominate position and an almost sub. So it's even, in an ideal world that's a 10-10. Now to refer back to my earlier post, if the judge is Rampage, that round goes to fighter A, if it's Maia that went to Fighter B.
I see that as 10-10, which these new rules now allow. Hopefully nobody ever gets Rampage to score fights
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:40 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Life B Ez View Post
Not to be that guy, but honestly you know who was a great judge. Eddie Bravo, does anyone remember when he did the unoffical scorecard thing for the ufc a long time ago. I heard him talk about the way he judged fights once and I thought his system was the best. He would take notes of just about everything that way when a round ended he wouldn't forget what had happened or if he did he could read it before he scored the round. It sounded great to me, I forget sometimes what has happened at the beginning of a round and am guilty of scoring a round to a guy who steals it late when it probably should have gone the other way, so judges probably do it a lot too. There is a reason "stealing rounds" is a legit thing.
Making notes is a good thing. Your ultra short term memory lasts only for 7 seconds and when directly after an action another action happens, it's very likely that you forget the first action, because it doesn't get processed by the brain.

When I score fights for myself, I score them minute by minute and I'm not reluctant to score a minute a 10-10 or a 10-7 respectively. After the round I count the scores of the five minutes together so I have my winner of the round.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yup. All I took from it is that even more weight will be given to wrestling. Question for everyone:


Fighter A & B start the first round.

After around a minute of feel out with no significant strikes landed fighter A starts to find his range and lands a couple good jabs and say 2 straight counters.

Realizing that he is losing on the feet, fighter B shoots in for a TD around 2:00 in and is stuffed.

Fighter A starts getting more aggressive and lands a multi punch combo. Fighter B tries to circle out but is caught with power shot and is staggered.

Fighter B goes in for a TD at 2:30 in and gets it.


Fighter B stays in guard landing say 10-15 arm punches.


There are a few sub attempts with fighter A trying to get a high guard but nothing close and fighter B finishes the round on top staying heavy and avoiding any sweeps, completely controlling the position.


Who wins that round?


I would think Fighter A based on the 2:30 minutes of standing control and landing the only significant strikes on the feet. However, I think a majority of judges would give it to B. How would you score and what do you think an average MMA judge would score it.
Hmm, I would personally think A should take the round, but I think the fact that B took control for the last two minutes instead of the first two, that fighter B would get it more times than not. I think there should be more 10-10 rounds though.
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