Boxers.....bring it on! - Page 5 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
General MMA Discussion Discuss King Of The Cage, Ultimate Challenge UK, and HDNet Fights as well as general mixed martial arts discussion.

Reply

Old 08-03-2007, 01:48 PM   #41 (permalink)
True Grappler
 
IronMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City, New York
Posts: 6,222
IronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A Baller
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2ufc
I'm new to MMA but 1 thing I can tell you already,having seen thousands of boxing fights is that NONE of the guys I have seen from MMA(mainly UFC and a few others) can punch for shit and that is how the fight usualy starts.

Their technique is so poor so right from the off,the boxer has the upper hand. They are trained to punch and punch well. Obviously the danger for a boxer would be when he is taken down BUT someone as fast as Mayweather would NOT get taken down easily. He is the perfect hit and not get hit type fighter,if someone can trap him on the ropes,throw 15 plus punches and miss them all,I find it hard to imagine him letting someone get close enough to take him down.

I'd like to add that boxers with one punch KO power with gloves on would be dangerous too.
Obviously, your new, so I'll be gentle.

None of the guys you have seen in MMA punch for sh*t? What about:

Fedor Emelianenko
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Mark Hunt
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia (in his younger days)
Aleks Emelianenko
Sergei Kharitonov
Igor Vovchanchyn
Randy Couture
Chuck Liddell
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Wanderlei Silva
Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
Rich Franklin
Anderson Silva
Denis Kang
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Takanori Gomi
Joachim Hansen
Hayato Sakurai

That's just off the top of my head. A handful of those guys are, or were, professional boxers. If you don't think they can punch, you obviously have no idea what a punch looks like.

You see, the difference between these guys and boxers is that they can do other things. Bas Rutten even proved that a boxing stance was useless in MMA (and, thus, a streetfight) when he had Duane Ludwig pound on Jens Pulver's more traditional boxing style.

Boxers have come over, but they rarely make it up the top ranks. If you want to know what I mean watch PRIDE's Butterbean v Ikuhisa Minowa. You have to know submissions and wrestling, and that's not just something you can pick up over night. It's much easier for a wrestler (who can control the pace of the fight and where it goes) to transition to MMA than a boxer, because a wrestler has much more applicable skills in MMA.

Even if you're a boxer in MMA, you can't win a fight with just boxing. There's more than just hands in boxing. You have to deal with the added dimensions of leg-kicks and clinches that your opponent can hit you in, in addition to the constant threat of being taken down.

I've been saying this for a long time:

Show me a boxer who can take leg-kicks from Mirko CroCop...

Show me a boxer who can hurt Mark Hunt standing up...

Show me a boxer who can avoid a takedown from Mark Coleman...

Show me a boxer who can defend a submission from Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira...

Show me a boxer who can get off of his back with Fedor Emelianenko pounding his face in...

... and that guy'll be great in MMA. He, however, has not shown up and does not, in the real world, exist.
__________________


Sig by Toxic

Barnett - Toquinho -Werdum - "Nurmie"
Z. Gurgel - Morango - Rocha - Tiequan
IronMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 08-03-2007, 08:09 PM   #42 (permalink)
Banned
 
zackali's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 147
zackali has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPADA9
Income does NOT indicate intelligence, labeling MMA fighters as “hillbillies” and saying boxers who step into the octagon are “slumming it” is nothing more than lame stereotyping. If anything your average boxer when interviewed validates my opinion that a single digit IQ is enough to be a good boxer. There are plenty of MMA fighters who are educated and articulate, I can’t think of any boxers who fit those criteria.

Mayweather is nothing more than an overcompensated entertainer who would be raped if he was stupid enough to get in the ring (with even a mediocre fighter).

It’s a shame that boxing is so corrupt and bloated with corruption, it was once a great sport and art. I don’t watch anymore due to the lack of talent and class. Besides after getting into MMA I see boxing as dull at best (and I trained as a boxer in my late teens and early 20s).
klitchko brothers are both doctors, so just to answer your question and name any educated boxers, so there you have it
zackali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 08:17 PM   #43 (permalink)
Cheers.
 
vandalian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,341
vandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2ufc
I'm new to MMA but 1 thing I can tell you already,having seen thousands of boxing fights is that NONE of the guys I have seen from MMA(mainly UFC and a few others) can punch for shit and that is how the fight usualy starts.
Their technique is so poor so right from the off,the boxer has the upper hand. They are trained to punch and punch well. Obviously the danger for a boxer would be when he is taken down BUT someone as fast as Mayweather would NOT get taken down easily. He is the perfect hit and not get hit type fighter,if someone can trap him on the ropes,throw 15 plus punches and miss them all,I find it hard to imagine him letting someone get close enough to take him down.
I'd like to add that boxers with one punch KO power with gloves on would be dangerous too.
Well, if he's trapped on the ropes, or the fence, or whatever, they sure as hell will get the chance to take him down.

Anyway, comparing a boxer's technique to MMA fighter's technique is a ridiculous exercise. You can't strike in MMA the way you do in boxing. I know you're new to MMA, but I would think you would have noticed this by now.
vandalian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 08:59 PM   #44 (permalink)
MMA Fanatic
 
Jushiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 44
Jushiness has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboz19
You are right. I was taking cheap shots at the Iowa farm boy wrestlers. It is nice that they finally have somewhere to go after their free ride to Oklahoma State is over. While Matt Hughes is busy cashing his $300k paycheck Oscar De La Hoya will be deciding whether or not he wants to purchase the UFC.
Matt Hughes would whoop Oscars ass.. money doesnt mean anything. how does that factor into this at all?
__________________
young fighter in training
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...15/forjush.jpg
Striking-Muay Thai / Grappling-BJJ+Wrestling / Evasion- Boxing
Defense-Aikido / Philosphy-JKD
Influences- Bruce Lee, Tony Jaa, Tito Ortiz, Andrei Arlovski,
Jushiness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 10:01 PM   #45 (permalink)
Cheers.
 
vandalian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,341
vandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jushiness
Matt Hughes would whoop Oscars ass.. money doesnt mean anything. how does that factor into this at all?
The payout comparison if one of the few arguments boxing purists have left as they try to think of ways to dismiss MMA. Smacks of desperation, I say.
The money comparison doesn't make any sense now, and I hope it never does. That's been boxing's problem for years, putting money ahead of competition instead of pursuing a balance between the two. I, for one, hope MMA fighters never make what boxers do.

Last edited by vandalian : 08-03-2007 at 10:06 PM.
vandalian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 03:06 AM   #46 (permalink)
True Grappler
 
IronMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City, New York
Posts: 6,222
IronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A Baller
Everyone seems to be missing the point here, so I'll repeat myself.

Quote:
None of the guys you have seen in MMA punch for sh*t? What about:

Fedor Emelianenko
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Mark Hunt
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia (in his younger days)
Aleks Emelianenko
Sergei Kharitonov
Igor Vovchanchyn
Randy Couture
Chuck Liddell
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Wanderlei Silva
Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
Rich Franklin
Anderson Silva
Denis Kang
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Takanori Gomi
Joachim Hansen
Hayato Sakurai

That's just off the top of my head. A handful of those guys are, or were, professional boxers. If you don't think they can punch, you obviously have no idea what a punch looks like.

You see, the difference between these guys and boxers is that they can do other things. Bas Rutten even proved that a boxing stance was useless in MMA (and, thus, a streetfight) when he had Duane Ludwig pound on Jens Pulver's more traditional boxing style.

Boxers have come over, but they rarely make it up the top ranks. If you want to know what I mean watch PRIDE's Butterbean v Ikuhisa Minowa. You have to know submissions and wrestling, and that's not just something you can pick up over night. It's much easier for a wrestler (who can control the pace of the fight and where it goes) to transition to MMA than a boxer, because a wrestler has much more applicable skills in MMA.

Even if you're a boxer in MMA, you can't win a fight with just boxing. There's more than just hands in boxing. You have to deal with the added dimensions of leg-kicks and clinches that your opponent can hit you in, in addition to the constant threat of being taken down.

I've been saying this for a long time:

Show me a boxer who can take leg-kicks from Mirko CroCop...

Show me a boxer who can hurt Mark Hunt standing up...

Show me a boxer who can avoid a takedown from Mark Coleman...

Show me a boxer who can defend a submission from Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira...

Show me a boxer who can get off of his back with Fedor Emelianenko pounding his face in...

... and that guy'll be great in MMA. He, however, has not shown up and does not, in the real world, exist.
As for Oscar De La Hoya, he's saavy in the negotiating room and I respect his business smarts. He can laugh me all the way to the bank on that one and I'll be okay with that, but Oscar De La Hoya isn't a real fighter.

Let's face it, anyone who has a clause in their contract where they get to pick the color of their opponents shorts isn't in it for the fight.

Besides, if you put De La Hoya on the street against a guy like Hansen or Aurelio or Sherk (much less someone as massive and stong as Matt Hughes), he'd be absolutely destroyed.

I'll say this again (I just posted it on some rediculous thread about Chuck Liddell's striking), boxing is a sport, but it does not simulate a real fight. MMA doesn't do that perfectly either, because it has to adhere to certain rules nowadays, but it certainly does it a hell of a lot better than those pillows that boxers wear on their hands and a ref that breaks up the fight as soon as there's any sort of contact that isn't a fist hitting a face.

I have no problem with boxers, generally speaking. However, I have a serious problem with anyone who thinks that MMA is only about money and any boxer who criticizes the capacity of an MMA fighter without having stepped in the cage with four ounce gloves on.
__________________


Sig by Toxic

Barnett - Toquinho -Werdum - "Nurmie"
Z. Gurgel - Morango - Rocha - Tiequan
IronMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 03:15 AM   #47 (permalink)
Welterweight
 
dutch sauce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,137
dutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level nowdutch sauce is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Everyone seems to be missing the point here, so I'll repeat myself.



As for Oscar De La Hoya, he's saavy in the negotiating room and I respect his business smarts. He can laugh me all the way to the bank on that one and I'll be okay with that, but Oscar De La Hoya isn't a real fighter.

Let's face it, anyone who has a clause in their contract where they get to pick the color of their opponents shorts isn't in it for the fight.

Besides, if you put De La Hoya on the street against a guy like Hansen or Aurelio or Sherk (much less someone as massive and stong as Matt Hughes), he'd be absolutely destroyed.

I'll say this again (I just posted it on some rediculous thread about Chuck Liddell's striking), boxing is a sport, but it does not simulate a real fight. MMA doesn't do that perfectly either, because it has to adhere to certain rules nowadays, but it certainly does it a hell of a lot better than those pillows that boxers wear on their hands and a ref that breaks up the fight as soon as there's any sort of contact that isn't a fist hitting a face.

I have no problem with boxers, generally speaking. However, I have a serious problem with anyone who thinks that MMA is only about money and any boxer who criticizes the capacity of an MMA fighter without having stepped in the cage with four ounce gloves on.
great post repped. perfect points i agree 100%
__________________

Rep Me...I Will Rep You Back!
dutch sauce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 03:40 AM   #48 (permalink)
Flyweight
 
theboz19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 295
theboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hugtheboz19 Needs A Hug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jushiness
Matt Hughes would whoop Oscars ass.. money doesnt mean anything. how does that factor into this at all?
Money doesn't mean anything? Please come work for my company. I will pay you 1/50th of what you are currently making. The great thing is that you get to compete with the other great companies of the world and really test your skills.
__________________
THEBOZ

"DULCE ET DECORUM EST PRO PATRIA MORI"
theboz19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 04:55 AM   #49 (permalink)
Walking Spastic
 
BooyaKascha's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 681
BooyaKascha has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboz19
Money doesn't mean anything? Please come work for my company. I will pay you 1/50th of what you are currently making. The great thing is that you get to compete with the other great companies of the world and really test your skills.
*Whoooooooooooooosh*

Hear that?

That's the point he was attempting to make whizzing right by. Baseball players on average make more than NFL players. Does that automatically mean Baseball > Football? Nope, try again.
__________________
My Favorites:

Kendall Grove
Andrei Arlovski
Nick Diaz
Jens Pulver
Spencer Fisher
Sean Sherk
Corey Hill


5-1 in Forum bets

I <3 Paris Hilton
BooyaKascha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 06:07 AM   #50 (permalink)
MMA Fanatic
 
Jushiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 44
Jushiness has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooyaKascha
*Whoooooooooooooosh*

Hear that?

That's the point he was attempting to make whizzing right by. Baseball players on average make more than NFL players. Does that automatically mean Baseball > Football? Nope, try again.
thank you.

the fact that some one makes more money then the other person in their particular combat sport does not mean that they are better fighters then people in a very different combat sport.

if a boxer faught me and stuck to only using his fists, never learning takedown defense, never learning anything about wrestling, jujitsu or basic grappling anything, i will kick his leg untill he can barely stand and then take him down and submit him. a MMA fighter could easily avoid getting punched and play very defensively till they get the opportunity to take the boxer down. and thats assuming that the MMA fighter cant out strike the boxer all together.

while a boxer will limit himself to blocking, dodging and punching, i can punch, block, dodge, kick, knee, elbow, takedown, lock, and choke the boxer.

and if the boxer learned takedown defense and grappling defense then hes no longer just a boxer and has become a MMA fighter. thus the arguement that a boxer is better then a MMA fighter is VOID.
__________________
young fighter in training
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...15/forjush.jpg
Striking-Muay Thai / Grappling-BJJ+Wrestling / Evasion- Boxing
Defense-Aikido / Philosphy-JKD
Influences- Bruce Lee, Tony Jaa, Tito Ortiz, Andrei Arlovski,
Jushiness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios