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Old 05-31-2007, 03:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jdun11
Royce Gracie??? Are you guys kidding me?? He beat a bunch of stiffs with no knowledge of bjj. Are you telling me if Royce was in his prime could beat Big Nog? Nogueira would knock him out in 2 minutes. Bas was good, but he isnt quite on the level of guys like Noguiera, Couture, Liddell or Crocop. I dont know if the thread starter meant pound for pound. But if you meant who would win a tournament of the great fighters of all time in their prime. I would have to say Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria would be the favorite based on his sick grappling, crazy chin, and he is a pretty good striker too.
I think the only reason Royce has been mentioned is because people are looking at what he did for his time. I agree with what you said about Nog. I think Bas might still be ahead of him because he was lighter so the tourney wouldnt prove much. It wouldnt for Hughes or Saku either so that wouldnt work. I think Big Nog could very well be #2 all time, I just dont know though.
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asskicker
I think the only reason Royce has been mentioned is because people are looking at what he did for his time. I agree with what you said about Nog. I think Bas might still be ahead of him because he was lighter so the tourney wouldnt prove much. It wouldnt for Hughes or Saku either so that wouldnt work. I think Big Nog could very well be #2 all time, I just dont know though.
If we are talkin pound for pound its almost impossible to figure out who is the best. But in an OWGP I think Nogueira would take it
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FedorEm25
Pound for pound, I'd say BJ Penn might be second. Besides Jens Pulver, the only fights he's lost were fights that were out of his natural 155 weight class...and even those he showed amazing skills. If he stayed in the lightweight division, I think he'd be a more clear-cut candidate for 2nd best.

Otherwise, I agree with everyone who said it could be Big Nog or Bas Rutten.
i would have to agree with bj...so much talent and potential....raped matt hughes back when he was skinny and in shape....if bj trained harder he could be champ in a couple weight classes
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?

Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.

If you want to talk about who was the most dominant in their PRIME, it's got top be Mark Kerr. Kerr smashed everybody, and he did it pretty easily for a long time and in 2 organizations.

Kerr was undefeated for 3 years where he destroyed everyone that was put in front of him. That's dominance, as far as I'm concerned, and I think that's probably the most dominant era for any fighter besides Fedor.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?

Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.

If you want to talk about who was the most dominant in their PRIME, it's got top be Mark Kerr. Kerr smashed everybody, and he did it pretty easily for a long time and in 2 organizations.

Kerr was undefeated for 3 years where he destroyed everyone that was put in front of him. That's dominance, as far as I'm concerned, and I think that's probably the most dominant era for any fighter besides Fedor.
Gracie was very domiante in his prime just he was a horrendous all around fighter. Mark Kerr beat one other fighter who was good and that was Enson. he was dominate against sub par oppoenents. Frank Shamrock was dominate against much tougher fighters Tito, Horn, etc.. plus a better all around figther. Mark Kerr is an overrated bum
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Kerr really was an overrated blowhard. I mean, yeah, he looked good against people like Paul Varelans, Greg Stott, & Takada, but those guys sucked. As soon as he faced somewhat decent competition, he mentally quit. He could dish it out, but he couldn't take it, and the Fujita fight proved that.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:09 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I originally brough Royce as #2 for his time period. I'm talking about the Royce from the mid 90's that took all challengers regardless of size or fighting style. Back then MMA didn't exist in the form it does now, but it was that Royce Gracie that made an impact on MMA. Forget about the Royce that fought Hughes and Saku.

However, I'll also agree with Couture & Rutten as #2 of all time. They are perhaps two of the most technical practitioners of MMA in the sport.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:13 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js9234
Royce Gracie isn't an MMA fighter. He's a Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighter that fought in MMA before anyone knew about Jiu Jitsuand didn't know how to defend it. He is nowhere near the 2nd best at all.
that doesn't make any sense. how is royce not an MMA fighter because his strength is jiu jitsu?

without jiu jitsu, there is no mixed, in mixed martial arts.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:39 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Royce Gracie in his prime? Really?

Gracie didn't even finish UFC 3. That's not a dominant prime at all in my opinion.

If you want to talk about who was the most dominant in their PRIME, it's got top be Mark Kerr. Kerr smashed everybody, and he did it pretty easily for a long time and in 2 organizations.

Kerr was undefeated for 3 years where he destroyed everyone that was put in front of him. That's dominance, as far as I'm concerned, and I think that's probably the most dominant era for any fighter besides Fedor.
I normally agree with you but theres no way in hell I would rank Mark Kerr as the #2 fighter of all time. Not even close.
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I gotta go with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. The mention of Cro Cop is amusing. He is a one dimensional fighter. That one dimension can be lethal and is highly entertaining to watch, but as his debut in the ufc (Gonzaga) showed he needs work in his ground game. Until that happens, I can't seriously consider him in a best of all time list.
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