Kung Fu whiners - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
General MMA Discussion Discuss King Of The Cage, Ultimate Challenge UK, and HDNet Fights as well as general mixed martial arts discussion.

Reply

Old 08-15-2007, 12:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
True Grappler
 
IronMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City, New York
Posts: 6,225
IronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A Baller
The problem with Kung Fu is that there is so much tradition. It's a good thing and a bad thing. The fact is, so many of the modern kung fu practitioners don't think outside of the box, they aren't constantly thinking about the application of their skills in a practical setting.

The problem with any martial art is almost never the style it self (though there are some exceptions thanks to this whole McDojo fad), it's the practitioners.

The Kung Fu practioners that I have fought have all been guys who just study their style for the sake of studying their style. When you do that, you forget about the biggest piece of the whole thing: this is about self defense.

A good fighter, in any style, knows that the be all and the end all is how effective the techniques are on the street. Guys like Bruce Lee knew that, and they made sure that they knew the reasoning behind every technique that they used. The rest, they threw out the window.

With traditional styles, the questioning of techniques is discouraged. There is cultural richness, and so it's easy to get lost in that culture and that flourish when you should be thinking about how the hell the technique is going to work when your in an alley at 3 AM.

MMA is just a simulation of a one-on-one streetfight, so if your first thought isn't "how does this work when I'm being attacked?" then you might as well not even step into a cage or a ring, because the other guy knows what moves will work when he attacks you.

Some Kung Fu guys believe in the culture of the style, and that's great. I will never talk down about the spirituality of martial arts, and it's something that I think alot of MMA fighters today are missing out on. However, I will say this:

When the styles were first founded, do you think that the guy said "I'm going to create a richer spiritual and cultural style."

No.

There are only a handful of styles dedicated primarily to the study of peace and spirituality, Kung Fu is not one of them. This whole notion of culture has developed over time. It will do the same thing with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and today's modern styles, and we can see the beginnings of that now.

The fact that all martial artists need to come to terms with is that you are only as good as your ability to defend your self. Kung Fu fighters, and many other styles, sometimes forget that.
__________________


Sig by Toxic

Barnett - Toquinho -Werdum - "Nurmie"
Z. Gurgel - Morango - Rocha - Tiequan
IronMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 08-15-2007, 01:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
MMA Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 72
Rexqwondo has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
The problem with Kung Fu is that there is so much tradition. It's a good thing and a bad thing. The fact is, so many of the modern kung fu practitioners don't think outside of the box, they aren't constantly thinking about the application of their skills in a practical setting.

The problem with any martial art is almost never the style it self (though there are some exceptions thanks to this whole McDojo fad), it's the practitioners.

The Kung Fu practioners that I have fought have all been guys who just study their style for the sake of studying their style. When you do that, you forget about the biggest piece of the whole thing: this is about self defense.

A good fighter, in any style, knows that the be all and the end all is how effective the techniques are on the street. Guys like Bruce Lee knew that, and they made sure that they knew the reasoning behind every technique that they used. The rest, they threw out the window.

With traditional styles, the questioning of techniques is discouraged. There is cultural richness, and so it's easy to get lost in that culture and that flourish when you should be thinking about how the hell the technique is going to work when your in an alley at 3 AM.

MMA is just a simulation of a one-on-one streetfight, so if your first thought isn't "how does this work when I'm being attacked?" then you might as well not even step into a cage or a ring, because the other guy knows what moves will work when he attacks you.

Some Kung Fu guys believe in the culture of the style, and that's great. I will never talk down about the spirituality of martial arts, and it's something that I think alot of MMA fighters today are missing out on. However, I will say this:

When the styles were first founded, do you think that the guy said "I'm going to create a richer spiritual and cultural style."

No.

There are only a handful of styles dedicated primarily to the study of peace and spirituality, Kung Fu is not one of them. This whole notion of culture has developed over time. It will do the same thing with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and today's modern styles, and we can see the beginnings of that now.

The fact that all martial artists need to come to terms with is that you are only as good as your ability to defend your self. Kung Fu fighters, and many other styles, sometimes forget that.

Well Put. The bottom line is Kung Fu and Karate are good martial arts. I love all arts. But a one on one fight will 9 times out of ten result in the BJJ fighter winning. Now I have friends who do not train but since they watch UFC they think they are BJJ experts and always talk down towards other styles outside of BJJ. Little do they know that if they fought a Karate or kung fu practitioner they would get their a## beat. No matter what style you do whether BJJ, Karate, Muay Tai, Kung Fu, Kraf, and so on at LEAST YOU ARE TRAINING.
Rexqwondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 02:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
MMA Fanatic
 
DrederickTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41
DrederickTatum has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainee
Most kung fu practioners that I've ever seen fight seemed unable to take a hit (like that Kiai master)...took a jab, fell and looked like he was crying. If kung fu practitioners sparred more hardcore, they have the potential to kick ass.
This has been my experience as well. The thing is, the more 'traditional' martial artists spar, the less it becomes traditional. Everything changes, starting with their stance which imo is the signature of the style. Because what they do simply doesn't work to defend themselves. Most work on the premise that you can completely neutralize an opponents strike, when the reality is you have to mitigate as much damage as possible.
DrederickTatum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 02:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
True Grappler
 
IronMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City, New York
Posts: 6,225
IronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A BallerIronMan Is A Baller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexqwondo
Well Put. The bottom line is Kung Fu and Karate are good martial arts. I love all arts. But a one on one fight will 9 times out of ten result in the BJJ fighter winning. Now I have friends who do not train but since they watch UFC they think they are BJJ experts and always talk down towards other styles outside of BJJ. Little do they know that if they fought a Karate or kung fu practitioner they would get their a## beat. No matter what style you do whether BJJ, Karate, Muay Tai, Kung Fu, Kraf, and so on at LEAST YOU ARE TRAINING.
Yeah, a fighter trained in any style definitely kicks the sh*t out of the UFC fan who sits on the coach drinking beer and eating potato chips.
__________________


Sig by Toxic

Barnett - Toquinho -Werdum - "Nurmie"
Z. Gurgel - Morango - Rocha - Tiequan
IronMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 03:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
Banned
 
TheNegation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,809
TheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He CrossesTheNegation Is Respected By All He Crosses
I hate people dissing on any martial art. Its down to the person doing it.
Even if you take randomers on the street, with no training, there are guys who can fight and guys who cant. You know the kinda guys I am talking about, the ones that turn their backs and duck their head if they take a few punches.
TheNegation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 03:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
MMA Fanatic
 
DrederickTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41
DrederickTatum has a little shameless behaviour in the past
The fighting ability you are born with and developped out of school playground fighting is equal if not more important than the training 95% of martial artists receive.

Top fighters are well trained AND tough guys. Don't think for a minute just b/c you trained for a few years in some martial art you are automatically a tough guy (ESPECIALLY if it's one of the traditional arts).

The guys I know who have been in 50++ street fights aren't martial artists. They are just tough mother****ers. When they spar trained opponents they get dismantled. However in a real life situation things are different.

These guys are able to achieve a berzerker rage that is very hard for a martial artist to overcome (especially when they try to duplicate what a UFC or competition fight looks like). This berzerker rage gives them:

1) Incredibly high threshold of pain.: I've seen guys get punched in the face multiple times and still go at the guy like caged animal. Even with a broken nose.

2) Incredible power: Their incessant haymakers bruise and break even when they are blocked.

Keeping these guy at bay until they gas is not an option. You have to KO them. Which I have seen. By other tough guys...

When I look at generations of UFC, I look at it in the following way:

Early 90's:

Highly trained martial artists in their own discipline. This is when some styles started to fall by the wayside b/c they were not effective in real combat.

Mid-late 90's:

Tough guys like Tank Abbott came into the picture to show that tough guys could KTFO of trained martial artists.

Late 90's: This is when we started seeing tough guys who were well trained and the era of guys like tank abbott was done
DrederickTatum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 03:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
Cheers.
 
vandalian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,341
vandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crossesvandalian Is Respected By All He Crosses
As usual, IronMan, you have put a lot of thought into your post. You're absolutely right. Bringing these things back to Bruce Lee is getting pretty tired, but he had the same idea. He was fed up with rigid systems protected by rigid teachers who refused to change, to accept input and adapt. That's what Jeet Kun Do was all about, at least at first, taking different elements from different styles and creating a dynamic martial art that was always changing. If you're going to survive in a sport like MMA, which is always changing, you have to keep changing yourself. The problem with so many kung fu and karate practitioners and teachers, like you said, is that they don't allow any deviation from tradition, even if that tradition is outdated.
Jason DeLucia might be a bit of a nutbar, but he proved very open-minded after Royce beat him at UFC 2. He saw the advantages of BJJ and learned it, adapted his own kung fu style to be more effective.
vandalian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 03:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
Z-man-mma-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Revolution
Posts: 738
Z-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A HugZ-man-mma-fan Needs A Hug
lol.. i think this "berzerker rage" crap youre talking about is just an inability to control emotions and adrenaline. thats an incredibly BAD thing, if you are too emotional in a fight you will be reckless and make mistakes. look at all of the top fighters in MMA. Fedor, Noguiera, Silva, Filho, BJ Penn, etc. all of them are calm and controlled when they fight. its a known fact that a guy whos overly emotional and comes in throwing haymakers will get his ass handed to him to a guy who can control himself and act calmly.
__________________
- The Alpha Wolves-
Muhammad Ali - Fedor Emelianenko - Alexander Karelin
Z-man-mma-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 03:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
I Finish Threads
 
HexRei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,315
HexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By All
Quote:
Originally Posted by Split
damn stop puttting BJJ so high. It's all about the rules. If there wasnt any, pull guard on me and i will knee your balls.
Lol and that's legal in which Kung Fu tournaments?
If you are talking about a street fight, BJJ can be adapted quite nicely to that scenario too.
__________________
His helmet was stifling, it narrowed his vision. And he must see far. His shield was heavy. It threw him off balance. And his target is far away.
HexRei is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2007, 03:49 PM   #20 (permalink)
Love Hisae
 
taiwnezboi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 535
taiwnezboi will become famous soon enoughtaiwnezboi will become famous soon enoughtaiwnezboi will become famous soon enoughtaiwnezboi will become famous soon enoughtaiwnezboi will become famous soon enoughtaiwnezboi will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-man-mma-fan
lol.. i think this "berzerker rage" crap youre talking about is just an inability to control emotions and adrenaline. thats an incredibly BAD thing, if you are too emotional in a fight you will be reckless and make mistakes. look at all of the top fighters in MMA. Fedor, Noguiera, Silva, Filho, BJ Penn, etc. all of them are calm and controlled when they fight. its a known fact that a guy whos overly emotional and comes in throwing haymakers will get his ass handed to him to a guy who can control himself and act calmly.
Nice post. All that adrenaline is not going to keep you standing after eating several knees in a clinch, or keep you awake when you're in a rear naked choke.
__________________


Cris Cyborg
Chute Boxe Academy
MMA Record: 4-0 (3 (T)KOs)
Recently signed by EliteXC
Cris Cyborg Highlight Reel

taiwnezboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios