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Tim Sylvia 40 19.80%
Fedor Emelianeko 162 80.20%
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post #231 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 12:58 PM
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Tim was on the ground more then one time with Nog
You're right, my apologies. I forgot about the couple times he pulled guard in round 1, only to have Tim standup, although I didn't count the time Tim pounced on him when Nog was almost out or the take down Nog got in the last seconds of the 1st. What a fight that was, glad I watched it again.

I still think his sub-defense is mediocre at best. That's the point I was trying to drive home. If Nog can capitalize on his first sub attempt, Fedor can manage one as well, because I think he can take him down more often and end up on top. Thanks for keeping my information in check though! +rep


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post #232 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 01:07 PM
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Yes, and he lost his title to a substantially smaller fighter that effectively got inside on him after opening with strikes. You can say Tim didn't belong in the cage for that fight, but in reality, his back had nothing to do with him dropping his hand after an inside leg kick, and eating a massive punch. Tim's fight with Randy was over the moment he was rocked, not just because Randy manipulated Tim's injury.



He went for numerous takedowns, but he only went for one leg-trip the entire fight and it paid off.. too bad for him it was near the end of the round (if I remember correctly).



Yes, the cage could play a tactical if the fight takes place in it. I just think Tim's fought everything Tim offers before. He's beaten bigger/more powerful/quicker strikers in Choi/Cro Cop, he's fought better wrestlers in Coleman/Randleman, and he's battled against guys with much better ground games such as Nogueira.

Tim Sylvia doesn't possess the luxury of having experienced a fight with a World Combat Sambo champion, nor has he faced someone as explosive as Fedor on the mat.




Definitely hard, for sure. But it's also very hard to sit in Nogueira's guard, and beat his face in for 20 minutes too, and Fedor did that 2 times.
His back is a reason that happened because he wasn't even moving in their. Yes he dropped his hands and got caught but with how slow he was in that fight it is very possible that w/o the back injury he never gets caught like that. Because he let Randy inside very quickly which is something he never does.

K the fight isn't one I'm going to sit down and watch again so I'll take your word for it.

Can we stop mentioning Choi because he is a monster of a man with power but no real techinique to speak of and no MMA training. In fact Comparing Sylvia to Choi doesn't make much sense. Fedor didn't want to stand against Choi for obvious reason and Choi for some reason kept taking Fedor down. That won't happen in this fight.

Cro Cop is a different fighter due to his size. I mean Cro Cop is a small HW. Sylvia is about as big as they come.

Schlit is a pretty average MMA fighter. So taking him down doesn't mean much.

He fought Randleman and Coleman but didn't take down Randleman and he fought Coleman when he was a very old man.

Well battling Nogueira while great and everything has nothing to do with this fight. Since Nogueira was attempting to submit him and Sylvia would attempt to hold him and just hope for a stand up.

Also Sylvia has faced a "world class" Sambo guy 3 times in Arlovski. And before you say Arlovski couldn't show his Sambo in their fight in the 2nd fight Sylvia stood up off the ground.
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post #233 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 01:47 PM
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Sylvia via flying knee
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post #234 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:22 PM
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I think this is going to go to Fedor. I agree that He's faced everything and more than what Tim brings to the cage. Tim's best bet would be to pin him against the cage like he did Vera but I wouldn't bet on Fedor breaking his fist in the first round either. When you look at their fight records and Tim fighting top competition lately he hasnt faired too well. His last three fights when he fought big cometition he didnt fair well. Lost to Randy and Nog and beat Vera. Not much o fspeculation but I don't think Tim really has it in him to beat someone as good as Fedor. On the other hand Fedor hasnt even FOUGHT any top compeition in like three years but he's fought guys who were decent. He beat lindland and submitted a much bigger guy (like Tim is) so I'm giving it to him.


Also, does anyone know when the last time Fedor fought in a Sambo compeition was? Because even though he hasn't fought anyone great in MMA it doesnt mean he hasnt in Sambo per se
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post #235 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:27 PM
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Pretty sure Fedor won the 2007 Sambo championship.
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post #236 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
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His back is a reason that happened because he wasn't even moving in their. Yes he dropped his hands and got caught but with how slow he was in that fight it is very possible that w/o the back injury he never gets caught like that. Because he let Randy inside very quickly which is something he never does.
Tim Sylvia has very quick hands for his size, but his head movement isn't great. Watch his fight with Nogueira again, Nog waded through Tim's reach and eventually started landing the jab. Tim struggles with grapplers, and he's aware of it. I just firmly believe that Fedor will be able to get inside Tim's reach, simply from being more explosive and fluid with transitioning from strikes to grappling than anyone in the sport.

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Can we stop mentioning Choi because he is a monster of a man with power but no real techinique to speak of and no MMA training. In fact Comparing Sylvia to Choi doesn't make much sense. Fedor didn't want to stand against Choi for obvious reason and Choi for some reason kept taking Fedor down. That won't happen in this fight.
I'll stop mentioning Choi, but my main point was Fedor managed to get inside using strikes then engaged in bodylocks. Choi took Fedor down once, but the second time the fight hit the ground, Fedor waded through into Choi with a punch, tried to take Choi down, but instead, Choi directed his weight during Fedor's throw and ended up on top. Tim Sylvia doesn't have the size Choi has to reverse the throws, so once Fedor gets inside he shouldn't have a problem with getting Tim to the mat, based on his past fights.

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Cro Cop is a different fighter due to his size. I mean Cro Cop is a small HW. Sylvia is about as big as they come.
The main reason I brought up Mirko was to point out that Fedor has fought a quicker and more skilled striker. Yes, Cro Cop's reach isn't as big as Tim's, but that doesn't change the fact he could punish Fedor coming in for the takedowns based on hand-speed alone.

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Schlit is a pretty average MMA fighter. So taking him down doesn't mean much.
Taking him down may not impress you, but taking him down at will and controlling his length on the ground for three rounds should.

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He fought Randleman and Coleman but didn't take down Randleman and he fought Coleman when he was a very old man.
He didn't take down Randleman, he reversed him beautifully. Worst comes to worst, Fedor could always pull half-guard and sweep Tim.

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Well battling Nogueira while great and everything has nothing to do with this fight. Since Nogueira was attempting to submit him and Sylvia would attempt to hold him and just hope for a stand up.
Yes Nog's guard is more offensively active than Tim's, but we've seen Fedor dominate guys that are just as long as Tim on the ground. Once again I point to the Schilt fight to prove it, as Fedor controlled a much larger opponent.

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Also Sylvia has faced a "world class" Sambo guy 3 times in Arlovski. And before you say Arlovski couldn't show his Sambo in their fight in the 2nd fight Sylvia stood up off the ground.
Arlovski's Sambo skills are extremely under-utilized, in fact he rarely shows his caliber because he relies on his hans so much. His sambo only comes into play with his takedown defense, and he showed a glimpse of it against O'Brien when he tripped him to mount.

There's a huge difference between being the World Youth Combat Sambo champ and being the 5x World and 4x Russian, Army Combat Sambo champion.

Fedor's sambo is the best used in the sport, let's not go comparing his use of it to Arlovski, whom primarily relies on strikes to win fights.
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post #237 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:41 PM
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what promotion is this fight going to be in?
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post #238 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:45 PM
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Hasn't been mentioned yet.
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post #239 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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You're right, my apologies. I forgot about the couple times he pulled guard in round 1, only to have Tim standup, although I didn't count the time Tim pounced on him when Nog was almost out or the take down Nog got in the last seconds of the 1st. What a fight that was, glad I watched it again.

I still think his sub-defense is mediocre at best. That's the point I was trying to drive home. If Nog can capitalize on his first sub attempt, Fedor can manage one as well, because I think he can take him down more often and end up on top. Thanks for keeping my information in check though! +rep
No Problem, I can see where you're coming from but I don't think you are giving him enough credit but we'll see I guess
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post #240 of 254 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedor>all View Post
Tim Sylvia has very quick hands for his size, but his head movement isn't great. Watch his fight with Nogueira again, Nog waded through Tim's reach and eventually started landing the jab. Tim struggles with grapplers, and he's aware of it. I just firmly believe that Fedor will be able to get inside Tim's reach, simply from being more explosive and fluid with transitioning from strikes to grappling than anyone in the sport.



I'll stop mentioning Choi, but my main point was Fedor managed to get inside using strikes then engaged in bodylocks. Choi took Fedor down once, but the second time the fight hit the ground, Fedor waded through into Choi with a punch, tried to take Choi down, but instead, Choi directed his weight during Fedor's throw and ended up on top. Tim Sylvia doesn't have the size Choi has to reverse the throws, so once Fedor gets inside he shouldn't have a problem with getting Tim to the mat, based on his past fights.



The main reason I brought up Mirko was to point out that Fedor has fought a quicker and more skilled striker. Yes, Cro Cop's reach isn't as big as Tim's, but that doesn't change the fact he could punish Fedor coming in for the takedowns based on hand-speed alone.



Taking him down may not impress you, but taking him down at will and controlling his length on the ground for three rounds should.



He didn't take down Randleman, he reversed him beautifully. Worst comes to worst, Fedor could always pull half-guard and sweep Tim.



Yes Nog's guard is more offensively active than Tim's, but we've seen Fedor dominate guys that are just as long as Tim on the ground. Once again I point to the Schilt fight to prove it, as Fedor controlled a much larger opponent.



Arlovski's Sambo skills are extremely under-utilized, in fact he rarely shows his caliber because he relies on his hans so much. His sambo only comes into play with his takedown defense, and he showed a glimpse of it against O'Brien when he tripped him to mount.

There's a huge difference between being the World Youth Combat Sambo champ and being the 5x World and 4x Russian, Army Combat Sambo champion.

Fedor's sambo is the best used in the sport, let's not go comparing his use of it to Arlovski, whom primarily relies on strikes to win fights.
Yes I thought Nogueira got in well later in the fight but again Nogueira is much taller than Fedor.
I understand where you are coming from I just think Fedor's height is going to do him in against Sylvia who loves his jab and can keep guys bigger and more explosive than Fedor away with his jab like he did to Arlovski.

Getting inside against Choi's slow punches doesn't show he will be able to get inside on Sylvia just like getting inside on a smaller Mirko doesn't show he can get inside on Tim.

Cro Cop is a completly different stand up fighter than Tim. Tim keeps guys at a distance with his jab and when they press him he just stays with his jab while Mirko is a counter striker who hates being pressed and having his opponent push the action.

That is true but my point Schilt has been takendown by a ton of guys Sylvia hasn't. In fact it's pretty hard to get Sylvia down. So the fact that Fedor took down Schilt doesn't mean he can get inside and takedown Sylvia.

He would have to get inside to pull half guard.

I'm sure Fedor could keep Tim on the ground i just don't think he would finish him that's my only point with mentioning Sylvia not being aggressive in his guard and being more passive.

My comparision is that Arlovski had Sylvia down and Sylvia got up that's all. So Sylvia would probably have a chance at standing up after takedowns against Fedor but not a good one.

Arlovski who is a very explosive striker couldn't get inside of Sylvia in their 3rd fight that is one of the main reasons I don't see the smaller less explosive Fedor getting in.

Also I'm not saying Fedor isn't explosive but no one in the HW divison is as explosive as Arlovski.
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