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Old 06-27-2008, 02:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Knees to a downed opponent almost wipe out most stalling ground positions like north/south in the UFC.

I also dont see that much difference between kicking someone in the face while theyre on their feet as opposed to when theyre trying to get up.

Foot stomps are great because it makes it so an opponent cant just lay on their back until the ref stands them back up into a better position for them.

Say what you want about how brutal they might be but they definitely take out a lot of positions that fighters use to catch their breath or stall fights.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I never thought it was too brutal, but I probably would if I hadn't seen Vale Tudo matches.

I think the UFC needs to bring the knees to the head of a grounded opponent back.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i definally prefer the Pride rules. I can do with out the head stomps but i think Knees to the downed opponant is a better rule than the elbows if you REALLY have to pick.

As stated early, no knees make for no punishment for lazy/bad shoots. Its alot harder to lean down and punch to the head then it is to knee from a succesful sprawl.

I think stomps are a bit over rated and really haven't been used to change the course of a fight (I know Wandy has had some good ones though) - same can we said for the soccer kick. Off hand I really can't remember when it was used to finish someone (as Opposed to being the exclaimation point on an already TKO). I think Fujita had a few good ones vs Sapp but he finished with punches.

As far as the OP poster saying that Pride is more brutal than UFC. I think early Pride definally didn't stop as quick as UFC does now. I really couldn't see something like Enson Inoue vs Igor V happen in UFC now.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i definally prefer the Pride rules. I can do with out the head stomps but i think Knees to the downed opponant is a better rule than the elbows if you REALLY have to pick.

As stated early, no knees make for no punishment for lazy/bad shoots. Its alot harder to lean down and punch to the head then it is to knee from a succesful sprawl.

I think stomps are a bit over rated and really haven't been used to change the course of a fight (I know Wandy has had some good ones though) - same can we said for the soccer kick. Off hand I really can't remember when it was used to finish someone (as Opposed to being the exclaimation point on an already TKO). I think Fujita had a few good ones vs Sapp but he finished with punches.

As far as the OP poster saying that Pride is more brutal than UFC. I think early Pride definally didn't stop as quick as UFC does now. I really couldn't see something like Enson Inoue vs Igor V happen in UFC now.
Exactly, that's why they should have stomps and kicks on the ground.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I never cared much for stomps or soccer kicks. To me, they just sort of felt cheap, even though they were legal in Pride. Watching Rogerio just soccer kick the shit out of Sakuraba in their fight was, well, sort of sad, since it was Rogerio, who is awesome, soccer kicking someone who was breaking down.

Of course it was brutal. Shogun vs Kanehara was freakin' brutal, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the brutality. I guess it just depends on who is doing the stomping and stuff. Shogun and Wanderlei were really creative, so I dug watching them stomp fools.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Brutal? YES, Too Brutal? NO. Loved Pride.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I always felt like it was too much when the head stomps and soccer kicks were going on. Knees to the head never really bothered me, but those soccer kicks just made me hurt inside.

My thing with that is when you have someone on their hands and knees and you know that they're hurt already. When I saw fights in school or at bars and someone did that, I always wanted to kick the crap out of them for taking such a cheap shot on someone.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The only brutal thing about Pride was that they allowed some fights to go on far longer than they should have. Most stoppages were fine, but some were definately not. Kharitanov/Schilt, Arona/Sakuraba and as someone mentioned Vovchanchyn/Inoue spring to mind as the worst.

Good rules changes in the UFC would be allowing knee's to the head of a grounded opponent (except the straight downwards ones, like the elbow rule). So as to stop Randleman "Skyscraper" knees. Grounded should also be redefined as four points on the ground, not this retardo three points and one of those points is someone's index finger.

That would stop stalling in North/South, give people a good attack to use after defending a takedown, give people a good attack to use in sidemount, would stop people from putting one hand on the ground as a defence (seriously that is some retarded shit). It gives the ground game a good attack to work for and the standup a good attack to capitalise on a mistake or a succesfully defended takedown.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Randleman's sky scraper knee's reminded me of Wanderlei's ultra nasty death knee's he unleashed on Sakuraba in their first fight. You know, when Sakuraba was turtled up and Silva was freakin' kneeing the shit out of him. Most of those knee's hit the back of his head, too. Pride really seemed to hate Sakuraba for some reason. Maybe Takada was jealous of him or something.
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I will be in the minority in this thread and say that I like the kicks/knees to the head of a downed opponent and stomps.

It is more like an actual fight in that you are not limited in the strikes you can throw.

The argument that they are more dangerous doesn't really hold water to me. Any strike, if undefended, can be harmful/fatal. Were someone allowed to get a free Right Hook to your temple, you could die from that. A stomp to the face, if undefended will do that same thing.

However, that is the job of the fighter, to defend against his opponents strikes. They are not problematic if there is a good ref there to stop the fight when necessary.

Allowing knees to the head while standing, or while an opponent is diving in for a leg, but then not allowing them on the ground seems to me to be like making alcohol legal while making Marijuana illegal. They both have relatively similar effects, both are dangerous in their own ways, yet one is illegal and the other is not.

Seems inconsistent. I think people think knees and soccer kicks are more dangerous because it looks more vicious.
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