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View Poll Results: Best Promoter in MMA

Scott Coker 1 5.00%
Dana White 18 90.00%
Gary Shaw of course 1 5.00%
Other 0 0%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-28-2008, 04:10 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMW View Post
He's making a pretty legitimate argument if you give it a chance.
He lost me at buying PRIDE was a huge mistake. I don't see how eliminating your biggest threat to date is a mistake. Sure he didn't get what we were all hoping out of the deal, but he put an end to the only other MMA organization out there that was competing with the UFC almost on the same level. For me it's just difficult to consider Coker as good or better than Dana when the scale is so different.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Your basically trying to argue that Kia is more sucessful that GM.
No but I'm aruging that the CEO of Kia does better with his company and what he has to work with than GM.

Obvoiusly I'm talking about MMA because I know nothing about the car industry.

Also Buying Pride was a mistake because of a lack of knowledge of what he was buying. Pride wasn't surving no matter who bought them and the only thing Dana got was a Library.

I thought Dana made the right move at the time but when it turned out he got to keep none of the fighters contracts it was a mistake which is why he is suing DSE.

My entire point is that doing something no one else has done by turning a profit in 2 years and being on Network TV to me is damn impressive and might be one of the most impressive jobs of any promoter. I took Gary Shaw a crap load of money to get on network TV and honestly do you think Elite XC has that many more stars than Strikeforce?
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:30 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Bbjd, your argument isn't an argument for a promoter, it's one of a CEO, you seem to be confusing the two. If you had asked whether Coker was running Strikeforce better then your whole argument would make more sense but you are making points for a CEO.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Promoters in MMA for the most part run the business side 2. If a promotion is losing money it is the promoters fault and if it's making money the promoter deserves credit. Coker has done a great job with Strikeforce and is doing things no one else has done. You can say that he's just following the UFC's gameplan but then I think there woud be way more successful promotions out there if it was that simple. Coker has found a way to make money in only his 2nd year and deserves to get more credit than you guys are giving him. Did he do as much for MMA as Dana? Hell no. Is it possible that he is doing better with what he has to work with than Dana is? Defiantly it is possible.

Notice the one company that Dana doesn't bring up is Strikeforce because Coker has a successful system that even he knows is impressive.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bbjd7 View Post
Promoters in MMA for the most part run the business side 2. If a promotion is losing money it is the promoters fault and if it's making money the promoter deserves credit.
Not true, we can look at the UFC to see this.

Quote:
Coker has done a great job with Strikeforce and is doing things no one else has done. You can say that he's just following the UFC's gameplan but then I think there woud be way more successful promotions out there if it was that simple.
I have explained it to you many times why there aren't more successful promotions, you just can't get off of Coker to accept them. Also you can't tell me a difference in Coker's business model then the UFC's. You gave one but the one you gave was wrong.

Quote:
Coker has found a way to make money in only his 2nd year and deserves to get more credit than you guys are giving him. Did he do as much for MMA as Dana? Hell no. Is it possible that he is doing better with what he has to work with than Dana is? Defiantly it is possible.
So if someone sets up a stituation to show you how to be successful, would you not follow it? Would that proven plan not net you a gain faster than what the original companies did since you can see what is right to do and what is wrong?

Quote:
Notice the one company that Dana doesn't bring up is Strikeforce because Coker has a successful system that even he knows is impressive.
Dana doesn't mention any promotion unless asked about it and what is there to bring up about Strikeforce? Oh they did what we did and hold one record and only hold that record because they held an event at a venue that is larger than the ones we hold our events at. Strikeforce isn't anything other than a niche company at this point. They hold events in San Jose and have those events headlined by fighters from San Jose, people will come because of this. This isn't the hardest thing to come up with.

Besides turning a profit in two years, what else has Coker done?
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Dana ran the business side of the UFC for a long time up until just a little while ago actually.

So basically you are saying that only Coker is smart enough to follow Dana's gameplan? Well I think that's dumb. You can't start a promotion unless you get stars in teh current MMA enviorment you can't get stars without paying money. You still haven't told me why Strikeforce has the same number of stars as Elite XC has yet Elite XC is far into the red.

Of course looking at what Dana did helps Coker but there are major differences. UFC has done PPV which means another source of income but an expensive one. Strikeforce hasn't gone near PPV. Strikeforce has done co promotions so that they get a bigger name nationally. The UFC never did. If you really think Strikeforce is following the UFC's gameplan I'm not sure what you are looking at.

Dana talks about all sorts of promotions when they talk about how hard it is to run an MMA promotion he will just throw other ones out there but he doesn't mention Strikeforce because Coker has made it look easy.

I'm not sure what your huge issue is with this question. Coker has done a great job and is growing a promotion at an unheard of rate. Now I think Dana ATM is a slightly better promoter but I also think that Coker is doing a great job.

Also the UFC has done a number of shows in big arenas. Including some in Cali and Strikeforces number has still held up.
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbjd7 View Post
Dana ran the business side of the UFC for a long time up until just a little while ago actually.
Oh yeah because the Fertitta's had nothing to do with it right, but they did.

Quote:
So basically you are saying that only Coker is smart enough to follow Dana's gameplan? Well I think that's dumb. You can't start a promotion unless you get stars in teh current MMA enviorment you can't get stars without paying money. You still haven't told me why Strikeforce has the same number of stars as Elite XC has yet Elite XC is far into the red.
Well lets see what stars does Strikeforce really have? Cung Le, suprise from San Jose, Frank Shamrock, again suprise from San Jose, Josh Thomson, San Jose, Gilbert Melendez, oh could it be, San Jose. Their stars are all from the area in which they hold their events making it moe interesting for the fans. Meaning they will come and watch the local guys fight, which I explained before. Is this a radical business plan, nope. Also how have I not told you why EXC is in debt and Stikeforce isn't, remember the whole overspending thing?

Quote:
Of course looking at what Dana did helps Coker but there are major differences. UFC has done PPV which means another source of income but an expensive one. Strikeforce hasn't gone near PPV. Strikeforce has done co promotions so that they get a bigger name nationally. The UFC never did. If you really think Strikeforce is following the UFC's gameplan I'm not sure what you are looking at.
So at the start of Dana's tenure, how were the ppv numbers for the UFC and how much money were they making off of them? Co-Promoting with EXC and lending out fighters, how has this helped them, I'll need numbers to back that claim up.

Quote:
Dana talks about all sorts of promotions when they talk about how hard it is to run an MMA promotion he will just throw other ones out there but he doesn't mention Strikeforce because Coker has made it look easy.
I'm glad you make my point for me that Dana only talks when he is asked about them. Also you know why Dana doesn't mention Strikeforce, that's interesting. Could you tell us anymore about Dana since you seem to know what he is thinking? Also, since when has it ever been smart as a business to talk about someone who does the same things a you?

Quote:
I'm not sure what your huge issue is with this question. Coker has done a great job and is growing a promotion at an unheard of rate. Now I think Dana ATM is a slightly better promoter but I also think that Coker is doing a great job.
Haha, no issue. You just seemed to have gotten another person who you want to defend until no end with Coker like, Dida, CB, and all the Chute Boxe guys. You started a thread asking a question and I answered and then you engaged my question.

Quote:
Also the UFC has done a number of shows in big arenas. Including some in Cali and Strikeforces number has still held up.
Not true, UFC has broken a record Strikeforce had.

Don't think Coker is promoting on his own.

Do you know who svse is?

Also, do you know how good K-1 is doing in the US, not so good. I'll give you one guess as to who runs it.

Edit: Oh yeah since you kept making a big deal about the tv deal, are you forgetting that the UFC had one as well after Zuffa took over, Fox Sports Net.

On that note, I'm out of this thread.

Last edited by MLS : 06-28-2008 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MLS View Post
Oh yeah because the Fertitta's had nothing to do with it right, but they did.



Well lets see what stars does Strikeforce really have? Cung Le, suprise from San Jose, Frank Shamrock, again suprise from San Jose, Josh Thomson, San Jose, Gilbert Melendez, oh could it be, San Jose. Their stars are all from the area in which they hold their events making it moe interesting for the fans. Meaning they will come and watch the local guys fight, which I explained before. Is this a radical business plan, nope. Also how have I not told you why EXC is in debt and Stikeforce isn't, remember the whole overspending thing?



So at the start of Dana's tenure, how were the ppv numbers for the UFC and how much money were they making off of them? Co-Promoting with EXC and lending out fighters, how has this helped them, I'll need numbers to back that claim up.



I'm glad you make my point for me that Dana only talks when he is asked about them. Also you know why Dana doesn't mention Strikeforce, that's interesting. Could you tell us anymore about Dana since you seem to know what he is thinking? Also, since when has it ever been smart as a business to talk about someone who does the same things a you?



Haha, no issue. You just seemed to have gotten another person who you want to defend until no end with Coker like, Dida, CB, and all the Chute Boxe guys. You started a thread asking a question and I answered and then you engaged my question.



Not true, UFC has broken a record Strikeforce had.

Don't think Coker is promoting on his own.

Do you know who svse is?

Also, do you know how good K-1 is doing in the US, not so good. I'll give you one guess as to who runs it.

Edit: Oh yeah since you kept making a big deal about the tv deal, are you forgetting that the UFC had one as well after Zuffa took over, Fox Sports Net.

On that note, I'm out of this thread.
Why are you leaving the thread man it's just a debate I didn't realize there is any issue.

I think Coker has done a great job and sometimes I think that the guys behind the scenes should be given credit. People scream about how great Dana is all the time and that's fine and they should but Coker is great to and just because he's not dropping F bombs and on TV doesn't mean he shouldn't be given credit.

You explained the overspending thing and I get that my question is how come Strikeforce has stars (you forgot to mention Babalu, Overeem, Misaki, and some others) without overspending yet Elite XC had to and Strikeforce has as many if not more stars.

No you miss understood that point. I meant it is expensive to put together PPV's one of the reasons UFC was losing money early on that and a number of other things you have mentioned.

I don't know what Dana is thinking but I do know he trashes every promotion except for Strikeforce.


UFC has beaten Strikeforce attendence record in the US but has still been unable to beat their paid attendence.

I know Coker isn't promoting on his own neither is Dana and neither is Shaw. however he is the head of the promoting side of things.

Also the Ferttitas just said in interviews that they were barely involved in teh UFC and that now that Lorenzo is leaving Station Casinos that will change.

Yes Silicon Valley Sports and Entertainment I actaully have known that for a while since I looked up who ran Strikeforce when I debated someone over whether Pro Elite owned it.

What Coker did with K-1 USA has IMO a lot to do with the success he has had with Strikeforce he made mistakes and now has done a good job of building a strong base to grow from.

Look if you disagree that's fine but I see no reason why saying Scott Coker has done a great job with Strikeforce is incorrect your only points seem to be he is running a small time regional promotion, and that he is just doing what Dana did. Well considering they are on National TV I wouldn't call them a small time promotion and what's wrong with dominanting a region a lot of promotions have holds on regions and they don't make half the money Strikeforce is.

If he is following in Dana's footsteps like you say then fine is it not possible for a guy to follow in someone elses footsteps and be better than them. I'm not saying he is I'm saying he has done a damn good job and should be recongnized.

Last edited by bbjd7 : 06-28-2008 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I'm mainly out becuase the Diaz/Pacquiao fight is about to start and I'm gonna leave to go watch that and then the K-1 fights are on tonight/this morning as well, I'll be back.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:10 PM   #40 (permalink)
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O ok no problem then. I was confused I thought that wasn't something you would do I respect you a lot as a member and now a mod and defiantly didn't think you would do something like that.
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