The Anderson Silva/Fedor Emelianenko/George St. Pierre P4P Debate - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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GSP shouldn't even be in this conversation about best P4P. I mean he lost to Matt Serra just last year, and he has yet to make a successful title defense. I think we need to wait to consider GSP even at #2.
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:52 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I have Fedor at number 1 for another big reason that I feel no one considers, but it also may just be my opinion and how I consider things.

We are doing P4P rankings. Pound for Pound. There are many small HWs in the HW Divison, but Fedor has got to be one of the smallest since Vera left at 230 pounds. He gave up 33 pounds to big tim and stil gives up 10+ pounds to Big Nog and many pounds to other great fighters like Barnett.

I know it may not be as big as a factor as I make it sound to be, but I think that fact does and should propel Fedor a little more in the P4P rankings. Could Silva and GSP consistently win and dominate guys (ranked top tier guys) 15-35 pounds heavier than them? Maybe, even quite possibly, but we will never really know. Many people put less emphasis on the HW division in P4P since you cannot fight heavier guys, but when you are seriously underweight in that division, it makes you shine even more in my opinion.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:01 PM   #23 (permalink)

 
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I also considered that fact Tripod but if you go back a page your see I used it to come to a much diffrent conclusion.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Tripod that's a real good point I didn't think of.

Anderson and GSP have a size advantage in all their fights Fedor is at a disadvantage Although I still think the fact GSP cleared out most of his divison makes him #1.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think fedor is number 1 just because he hasnt lost in for ever and he has fought top competition and just made big tim look like a fool when he is a top 10 hw.

GSP - definately up there but not number one because he recently lost to matt serra because of ill preperation or mental instability which ever you want to call it. He has made a name for himself as a ww champion but he hasnt been a dominant champion yet and has won the title twice but has never defended.

To put it bluntly he just hasnt done enough to be number 1. I can see him claiming the title after a few title defenses and if he moves up and beats anderson silva but for now he just hasnt done enough hes still kind of young so he will do it, its just a matter of when.

Anderson - he has been dominant at 185 but he really hasnt faced many top tier guys since hes defended or won the title. The ufc has a pretty shallow 185 division. He has dominated it but really who has he beaten? Rich franklin, nate marqt and henderson. Fedor has beat many more top name guys.

They have both defended their titles dominantly but the problem lies in how many top tier guys anderson has faced. Even now his next two title defenses are pretty much a situation where they had no one else for him to fight.

BJ Penn - Just won the lw title and bounced back from back to back losses from GSP and Hughes. He has defended his title once against sherk so he isnt a dominant champion yet. I can see him moving up in the rankings when he defends his title a little bit more and if the GSP Penn fight happens and he wins. Other then that he is definately number 4.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I also considered that fact Tripod but if you go back a page your see I used it to come to a much diffrent conclusion.
I undetsand what you mean, but the fact of the matter is that everyone is still fighting guys relatively the same weight and when they are not, it's of guys that are much less skilled (Irvin). And I'm not sure what you mean comparing Leben to Sylvia. Sylvia's worlds better than Leben skill and technique wise.

And in my opinion, if you are bumping people down because people don't know their background style (Sambo) that a top fighter uses, that just seems unjustified. Are Shinya Aoki and BJ really not that great because no one deals with flexible guys who utilize a great rubber guard? Technically, not a huge base of fighters are actually well trained in Muay Thai either, but that doesn't mean Silva should be bumped down either. Machida for his karate?
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:04 PM   #27 (permalink)

 
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More what I meant with the Sambo background is that BJ fights guys with strong BJJ blackbelts but Fedor doesnt fight guys with a strong background in his primary style, Id just like to see him face somebody like Arlovski who nowhere near as accomplished as Fedor still has a strong Sambo background should give him an edge over most in defense anyways, stylistacly I'd just like to see him face somebody whith a better knowledge of Sambo, by comparison its like you saying to me BJ beat Sherk and Stevenson but you'd like to see him face a great BJJ guy. As for the Leben/Sylvia comparison, I dont think its true, I think Sylvia has gotten to were he is by being a interesting combination of skill and size, if Tim was 215 pounds and 6'1" he'd have never been a world champ. I think P4P Tim Sylvia is about the same as Leben, the diffrance is Sylvia is fighting guys he out weighs by like 30lbs.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I always thought that P4P ranking ment the person with the biggest skillset thus stating if he had more/less fat he would be awesome in that other weightclass also.


So what does wins and losses have to do with anything here ?


Fedor is for me the best heavyweight in the world

Anderson the best middleweight

GSP the best welterweight



And I am still wondering why people talk about Pound for Pound rankings, they are all 3 awesome fighters in different weightclasses and they bloody hell excite everytime they fight, for me they are 3 AWESOME fighters =D
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Old 07-20-2008, 10:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Well since Fedor's last big win before Sylvia(Cro Cop August of 05) Fedor only has three good wins Cro Cop, Hunt, and Sylvia. Whereas GSP has 7 good wins Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes X2, Koscheck, and Serra.
Serra isn't even close to a top 10 fighter, and sherk and penn are 155 guys. I wouldn't consider Trigg a top 10 fighter either. With that being said, fedor has beaten great fighters, he simply hasn't been able to get good fights lately. Crocop, sylvia, big nog, all impressive wins. To add more detail, he DESTROYED tim sylvia, the man who made randy take 25, while he had a back injury and is a 2 time HW champ.

As for silva, he is dominant in a thin division, and IMO lost the first round to hendo.

Fedor simply dominates everyone, including the best fighters in the world, and I simply don't see anyone else doing it on his level. He out struck someone with a massive reach advantage, who is billed as a striker, and put away the person who is probably #2 in the world in his class, in under a minute.
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Old 07-20-2008, 10:16 PM   #30 (permalink)

 
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Fedor simply dominates everyone, including the best fighters in the world, and I simply don't see anyone else doing it on his level. He out struck someone with a massive reach advantage, who is billed as a striker, and put away the person who is probably #2 in the world in his class, in under a minute.
Last time I checked Nog/Fedor went to a decision so I think it took more than a minute. If you were talking about Sylvia how is a guy that was 1-2 in his last three coming into the fight considered the #2 HW? The Sylvia fight is impressive Tim is just not #2.
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