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Old 08-07-2008, 03:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
No, are you the guy in your avatar?
Nope, just wondering because you seem to have a completely overinflated opinion of and vested interest in ELITEXC's success. A thorn in someone's side? Are you serious? Nobody watched and even less went to the last show. Affliction is a thorn in the side of UFC, I'm sure UFC will be there to sign a few of ELITEXC's good fighters when they collapse in the next year or so.
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Damone View Post
I was bored, so I re-watched Shields vs Okami.

Rd 1.

Okami controlled the clinch game. Jake tries like hell to take Okami down, gets him down but Yushin gets back up. They start trading a little, and Yushin lands a really nice body kick. They both try for a takedown, Jake goes for a leg-lock, Okami gets out and Jake lands some knees.

10-9 Shields, based on actually trying to work. Hardly an asskicking in that round.

Rd 2.

Jake tries to take Okami down and starts kicking air. Nice body kick from Yushin. Jake works like hell for a takedown. Nice takedown defense from Okami. They break up and Shields lands a nice leg-kick and goes for yet another takedown. Jake gets him down, but Okami is trying to get back up. Jake gets Okami's back but Yushin shows excellent defense and actually attempts a kimura. More defending of the takedown from Okami. Okami lands some nice shots to Shields head. I kind of yawn. They stand and trade, nobody lands anything of note. Round over.

10-9 Shields, based on actually trying to, you know, do something.

Rd 3.

Jake goes for a sloppy takedown and Okami sprawls. More shooting, more sprawling. Jake pulls guard. Okami in half-guard, showing great control. Okami unleashes some nice GnP. Jake is doing nothing but defending. Okami is smoking Shields on the ground, which I find funny, since you said Shields had it on the ground. Okami gets his back and Shields gets up. Shields is bleeding. Yushin lands some nice punches standing. Shields' ear is bleeding and the ref stops to check the cut and bloody nose. Shields tries to kick and panics. Nasty body kick from Okami. Shields had him standing, you say?

10-9 Okami, based on basically destroying Jake Shields.

29-28 for Shields using the 10-9 scoring system. Using the Pride system, the winner was easily Yushin Okami. I could see how many thought Okami won, since he made Shields fight his fight and had that huge third round. You are too biased towards Jake Shields.

There is also a moment in round 1 when Okami actually reversed a TD attempt by Jake and took Jake down, Jake immeadiatly scrambled up. I'm not making a point with that I just thought it was a good back and fourth.

In the last round when the refs checked Shields cut, Sheilds attempted a flurry, more than Okami ever attempted.

I don't think Okami made Sheilds play his game since for about 11 out of 15 minutes Sheilds was grappling for TDs and Okami was stuck defending.

Okami was actually on top of Shields because Shields pulled guard from a standing position.

I think effective aggression was in Sheilds favor the entire time.

When Okami was on top he was getting some work in. I'll give him that. But what was it 1 and a half minutes tops?

Out of 15 minutes.

I think Jake pushed the pace and was doing more to impose his will.

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Nope, just wondering because you seem to have a completely overinflated opinion of and vested interest in ELITEXC's success. A thorn in someone's side? Are you serious? Nobody watched and even less went to the last show. Affliction is a thorn in the side of UFC, I'm sure UFC will be there to sign a few of ELITEXC's good fighters when they collapse in the next year or so.
I don't see EliteXC folding as quick as some of you guys do. And I could ask if you are Dana because of your last sentence. But I know that you're not so it would not be an effective discussion method in regards to this issue.

I am a fan of EliteXC and I think that a few changes with marketing along with some other things would help EliteXC flourish.

I also beleive that alot of EliteXCs fighters are underated. Fighters such as Jake, Drew Fickett, Antonio Silva, Nick Diaz, K.J. Noons, and a few more. Furthermore they have some great up and comers like Rafael Feijao, Hector Lombard, Joey Villasenor, Conor Huen and alot more all with great records.

With a few changes it is a likley probability that this org will succeed.
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Eddie Alvarez is a top ten fighter what are you talking about?

And after Japan, he should be top 5 in my opinion. It's also funny how Nick Diaz isn't top 10 or K.J. Noons. EliteXC is less a circus and more a thorn in your side.

Sheilds isn't making "claims" he really wants to fight the best.

He isn't however going to sell his soul to Dana and the Fertitas for less money and a locked up contract. He's definatly smart. Why can't GSP come play? Because his daddy Dana says no?

This circus you speak of respects it's fighters with respectable contracts and a decent payday. How bout that?



One of the top 10 in the UFC is named Yushin Okami. He got his ass handed to him by EliteXCs Jake Sheilds.



And you want Sheilds to work for the Fertitas? Is there a fighter under Zuffa who isn't locked down?




"bbjd7" ansered you on this. Misaki is signed with Strikeforce so you'll be seeing him in an EliteXC cage soon enough. Add another 10er to the mix.

So not only are your facts wrong here but so is your prediction.



Sheilds has expressed his willingness to move up in weight. Thus they'd weigh in the same. You just really think Sheilds isn't good don't you?




Again you are wrong. In my opinion Jake is better than John Fitch. I know his Jiu-Jitsu is. And his striking is pin point. Ride out his contract? Looks as if the UFC has an issue with their own fighters riding out their contracts......and leaving.

Looks like your circus has it's fighters respect. And that counts more than your ill informed opinions.

First of all mmaweekly, yahoo sports, sherdog.com, and tapout magazine don't have Alavarez in the top ten, so he's not top ten just because you say so. Also he only has fought under the proelite banner once. He is not under contract, therefore isn't even their fighter. As far as selling his soul to go the UFC, I don't know why you hate the UFC so much. Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock. Maybe you work for Proelite. Any way it goes Jake Shields remaining in Elite XC, is like a great basketball player passing up the NBA to play in Europe. It doesn't matter if he likes the company or not, they are the top company with the top fighters. The reason to get locked down in a contract with the Ferritas is so that he can spend the next three years fighting the best competition and procing himself. As far as Jake being better than Fitch, you're the only one I've ever heard say that. Fitch is the consensus number 2 in the world. Also if you honestly think that Jake won't spend his entire fight with Lindland getting pounded, then you haven't seen Lindland fight. They won't weigh the same. Shields won't have to cut weight and will weigh about 185. By fight time Lindland could weigh about 200. Elite XC is a thorn in the UFC's side, one that is going to be easily pulled out and thrown in the garbage. They already have had the heads of the company step down. They are losing so much money, they need a miracle to save the company.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Anyone who doesn't have Alvarez in their top 10 is dumb and hasn't been watching his fights.

The guy isn't only top 10 he's top 5 atm.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Alvarez is definitely a top 10 LW.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
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First of all mmaweekly, yahoo sports, sherdog.com, and tapout magazine don't have Alavarez in the top ten,
What a joke. I'm telling you, EliteXC fighters are not rated correctly.

Quote:
Also he only has fought under the proelite banner once. He is not under contract, therefore isn't even their fighter.
You're wrong here, EliteXC has allowed him to compete in Japan. Who told you this lie? They should be punished

http://www.mmaringreport.com/elitexc...-elite-xc.html


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/01/...ent-on-jan-25/

http://www.themmadigest.com/2008/01/...ong-term-deal/

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As far as selling his soul to go the UFC, I don't know why you hate the UFC so much. Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock.
I don't hate any MMA org, nor will you find a post of mine that says such. Don't put words in my mouth. It discredits you.

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Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock.
Um, yeah.......

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Maybe you work for Proelite.
Ya got me!

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Any way it goes Jake Shields remaining in Elite XC, is like a great basketball player passing up the NBA to play in Europe.
It's not that simple. It's becoming common knowledge that alot of fighters in the UFC have had money and contract issues with Dana. Why would an intelligent fighter place himself in that situation?

Quote:
The reason to get locked down in a contract with the Ferritas is so that he can spend the next three years fighting the best competition and procing himself.
Alot of great fighters have left the UFC. Maybe it's not the best place right now.

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As far as Jake being better than Fitch, you're the only one I've ever heard say that. Fitch is the consensus number 2 in the world.
I do think he's better than Fitch. Especially his Jiu-Jitsu.

As far as your consensus is concerned I can't put my trust in people who wouldn't put Eddie Alvarez in the top 10. Or when they rank Carlos Condit over Jake Shields when Sheilds has defeated Condit.

Quote:
Also if you honestly think that Jake won't spend his entire fight with Lindland getting pounded, then you haven't seen Lindland fight.
Says you. I've seen alot of Lindland. Have you really studied Shields?


Quote:
They won't weigh the same. Shields won't have to cut weight and will weigh about 185. By fight time Lindland could weigh about 200.
That's possible, It would be a good fight. I think Shields would be very compeditive.

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Elite XC is a thorn in the UFC's side, one that is going to be easily pulled out and thrown in the garbage. They already have had the heads of the company step down. They are losing so much money, they need a miracle to save the company.
Only time will tell, Shaw stepping down was more than likley not of his own will. I think you're very wrong about 80% of your post.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:41 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
What a joke. I'm telling you, EliteXC fighters are not rated correctly.



You're wrong here, EliteXC has allowed him to compete in Japan. Who told you this lie? They should be punished

http://www.mmaringreport.com/elitexc...-elite-xc.html


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/01/...ent-on-jan-25/

http://www.themmadigest.com/2008/01/...ong-term-deal/



I don't hate any MMA org, nor will you find a post of mine that says such. Don't put words in my mouth. It discredits you.



Um, yeah.......



Ya got me!



It's not that simple. It's becoming common knowledge that alot of fighters in the UFC have had money and contract issues with Dana. Why would an intelligent fighter place himself in that situation?



Alot of great fighters have left the UFC. Maybe it's not the best place right now.



I do think he's better than Fitch. Especially his Jiu-Jitsu.

As far as your consensus is concerned I can't put my trust in people who wouldn't put Eddie Alvarez in the top 10. Or when they rank Carlos Condit over Jake Shields when Sheilds has defeated Condit.



Says you. I've seen alot of Lindland. Have you really studied Shields?




That's possible, It would be a good fight. I think Shields would be very compeditive.



Only time will tell, Shaw stepping down was more than likley not of his own will. I think you're very wrong about 80% of your post.
So you don't hate any promotion, but working for one is selling your soul? Seems to be a contradiction. According to you Elite XC fighters aren't ranked properly. It's too bad you can't find one legitimate sports writer or expert who agrees with you. I'm sure you're right though. You must know better than people who are considered experts, and get paid for their knowledge about MMA. Oh also none of these organizations have Condit ahead of Shields, so I don't know where that came from. As far as fighters leaving the UFC, Randy, Arlovski, and Sylvia all left to fight Fedor. What other top level fighters have they lost? I have seen many of shields fights, I simply don't think he has the power as a small 170 fighter to tangle with the world class wrestling talent of Matt Lindland, who is a big 185 fighter. As far as not putting himself in a bad monetary situation, guys like GSP and Anderson Silva are making huge amounts of money. If Shields is as good as you say so would he. I agree that Shields Jiu-Jitsu is better than Fitch. However, I think Fitch's wrestling would be too much for shields to handle. I agree Shaw stepping down was not of his own will. The company is in trouble, so he was forced out. The stock is plummeting, the ratings are dropping, and they are hemorrhaging money. Do you honestly think they will keep the CBS deal if the ratings continue to be poor? You were right about Alvarez being under contract. I was wrong; I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. You should give it a try sometime. If Alvarez wants to continue to fight mid level fighters that Elite XC can scrounge up, good for him.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:40 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post

It's not that simple. It's becoming common knowledge that alot of fighters in the UFC have had money and contract issues with Dana. Why would an intelligent fighter place himself in that situation?
You'll have a hard time finding any person who doesn't have pay issues with their boss. Money isn't always the only or most important factor when one works for a company. If Shields really wants to be considered the best, he'll go to UFC when he can. It's not like he couldn't make more or close to the same with the UFC, not too mention I'm sure his sponsorships could increase because more people watch UFC than EliteXC. Shields will NEVER be considered the best if he doesn't defeat the WW's in the UFC. So what is more important for Shields? Money or being the best? But like I said, it's logical that Shields would make more money in the UFC. Shields sounds like to me he wants to stay the big fish in the little pond that is EliteXC



Quote:
Alot of great fighters have left the UFC. Maybe it's not the best place right now.
Besides HW's, who? Of those, Couture is the only one they tried to keep. AA and Sylvia were practically pushed out.


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Or when they rank Carlos Condit over Jake Shields when Sheilds has defeated Condit.
That was two years ago and since then, Condit has beaten better opponents I think. But the rankings I'm looking at have Shields well ahead of Condit.

http://zewkey.com/rankingstest.htm

But no ranking in sports is going to make everyone happy.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
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You'll have a hard time finding any person who doesn't have pay issues with their boss.
I haven't heard one member of Affliction, EliteXC, or Strikeforce complain.

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Money isn't always the only or most important factor when one works for a company.
Neither is popularity. Drew Fickett has beaten Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck. Both ranked top 10. Drew's not ranked. Looks like EliteXC ain't the most popular bunch.

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If Shields really wants to be considered the best, he'll go to UFC when he can.
Says you. He's got some good oppourtunities at WW and MW.
And since Alvarez moves between LW and WW I'd love to see that one. If the money is right it is a possibility.

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It's not like he couldn't make more or close to the same with the UFC,
The Jury is still out on that one.

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not too mention I'm sure his sponsorships could increase because more people watch UFC than EliteXC.
Very true, I agree with you on this.

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Shields will NEVER be considered the best if he doesn't defeat the WW's in the UFC.
It matters how stable the UFCs WW division stays, and which WW fighters EliteXC brings in. Affliction, and DREAM are young and building also. If they sign WW power you can bet that Shields will play in their yard.

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So what is more important for Shields? Money or being the best?
I would honestly assume that it's a little bit of both.

Quote:
Shields sounds like to me he wants to stay the big fish in the little pond that is EliteXC
Or maybe as Roger Huerta recently put it "be loyal to an organization who will be loyal to him".

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Besides HW's, who? Of those, Couture is the only one they tried to keep.
If it wasn't for the money issue they would have kept Tito Ortiz.

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That was two years ago and since then, Condit has beaten better opponents I think. But the rankings I'm looking at have Shields well ahead of Condit.
You're right about this.

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But no ranking in sports is going to make everyone happy.
I think Eddie Alvarez deserves top 5 rank.
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:23 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I eventually would like to see Shields go into the UFC before he's 30. He's skilled enough and is dominant enought to do well there-not saying the UFC is the end all be all-but right now the top flight guys are there. LINDLAND has already said the UFC has no interest in him and I think it would benefit EliteXC to go after him. Affliction seemed to go after the guys they wanted. UFC seems to have majority of the up and comers seeking them out (especially US fighters) and WEC is UFC light. I would love to see Shields vs. Penn or GSP.
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