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Old 08-08-2008, 06:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
I haven't heard one member of Affliction, EliteXC, or Strikeforce complain.
Of course you haven't heard Affliction guys complain. They had one PPV, in which they paid their fighters so much that they lost money on the PPV.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Neither is popularity. Drew Fickett has beaten Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck. Both ranked top 10. Drew's not ranked. Looks like EliteXC ain't the most popular bunch.
Yes Fickett beat these guys YEARS ago. This was in their 5th and 3rd fights respectively. Since then he has lost to Parisyan, Burkman, and Richard Villes (who?).


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
It matters how stable the UFCs WW division stays, and which WW fighters EliteXC brings in. Affliction, and DREAM are young and building also. If they sign WW power you can bet that Shields will play in their yard.
Yes the UFC WW division is the one that's going to drop off. Not the companies that can't turn a profit like Affliction. Why would shields go to DREAM where he would make significantly less money? American fighters don't make big money in dream.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Or maybe as Roger Huerta recently put it "be loyal to an organization who will be loyal to him".
Do you honestly think Huerta deserves the money he's asking for? If Huerta was claiming to be a top LW, you'd attack him. Since he fits your argument you decided to use him. Huerta will lose to Florian, and then sign for less money.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
If it wasn't for the money issue they would have kept Tito Ortiz.
I am a Tito Ortiz fan, but he's not a top fighter anymore. He's a top name, but not at the level he use to be at. He's like many great fighters, and he doesn't know when to quit.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
I think Eddie Alvarez deserves top 5 rank.
Once again no one that matters agrees with you. Maybe it's good that it doesn't matter what you think.
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:35 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Shields, I believe, was supposed to fight Josh neer at UFC 62, but he dropped out and Nick Diaz took his place. he was also rumored to take on Karo, but it ended up being Drew Fickett.
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:06 PM   #33 (permalink)
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RockyBalboa, you do understand that the UFC didn't turn profits on their gates until last year, right?
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:19 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by brownpimp88 View Post
RockyBalboa, you do understand that the UFC didn't turn profits on their gates until last year, right?
I'm not just talking about the gate. I'm also figuring the PPV buys. Affliction still lost money. So you're wrong UFC 60 generated over 23 million dollars for the company. That's just one example.
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
I'm not just talking about the gate. I'm also figuring the PPV buys. Affliction still lost money. So you're wrong UFC 60 generated over 23 million dollars for the company. That's just one example.
Gates and buys included, the UFC didn't have an annual profit until last year. UFC 60 may have had profits, but I am speaking annually. Keep this information in mind when looking at Affliction, and you will realize that they did incredible for their first show with pretty much no sponsors aside from Trump.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:04 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Of course you haven't heard Affliction guys complain. They had one PPV, in which they paid their fighters so much that they lost money on the PPV.
They pay their fighters well? Good for them. Probably keeps the morale up. And hey, these are the men doing combat in the cage, they are the reason that these orgs make any money at all. It's good to hear that they're being taken care of.

Quote:
Yes Fickett beat these guys YEARS ago. This was in their 5th and 3rd fights respectively. Since then he has lost to Parisyan, Burkman, and Richard Villes (who?).
The Villes loss was what a week ago? Before That loss he was on a 5 fight win streak with a 34-5 record, wins over Josh Koscheck and Kenny Florian. Still wasn't ranked.

Quote:
Yes the UFC WW division is the one that's going to drop off.
The question is where will their fighters be ranked next year, 1 or 2 losses from key guys throw off rankings quite effectivly.

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Not the companies that can't turn a profit like Affliction. Why would shields go to DREAM where he would make significantly less money? American fighters don't make big money in dream.
Wow! Aren't you the same guy who said "Sheilds shot himself in the foot when he deciced to take the money EliteXC offerd him........rather than fighting the best...

So now you're saying that he should be concerned with money?



Quote:
Do you honestly think Huerta deserves the money he's asking for? If Huerta was claiming to be a top LW, you'd attack him. Since he fits your argument you decided to use him. Huerta will lose to Florian, and then sign for less money.
If you're asking what I honestly think about Huerta and his ambitions.........Well he is 6-0 in the UFC. Now according to you, only the best fight in the UFC. So he's looking pretty valuable to me.

As far as him signing for less money...... I don't know man, he sounds like he wants a raise.

Quote:
I am a Tito Ortiz fan, but he's not a top fighter anymore. He's a top name, but not at the level he use to be at. He's like many great fighters, and he doesn't know when to quit.
Maybe you should tell him so. He does hold a victory over the UFCs current LHW champion in Forrest Griffen.

Quote:
Once again no one that matters agrees with you. Maybe it's good that it doesn't matter what you think
If it doesn't matter what I think than why do you continue to engage in this debate? Sounds to me like it matters to you.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownpimp88 View Post
Gates and buys included, the UFC didn't have an annual profit until last year. UFC 60 may have had profits, but I am speaking annually. Keep this information in mind when looking at Affliction, and you will realize that they did incredible for their first show with pretty much no sponsors aside from Trump.
Not that I'm surprised, but you are wrong again. The UFC did not have one PPV in 2007 that did not show a profit. However the company's profits were almost nonexistent. This is because of the huge payout in the purchase of PRIDE. Ever since 2004 the UFC has been in the black as far as profit margins. Pulling a year end profit margin figure does not rate the success of a company, especially when they have gone through a major merger. The company's success can be shown in whether their product is making a profit, which the selling of PPV's were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
They pay their fighters well? Good for them. Probably keeps the morale up. And hey, these are the men doing combat in the cage, they are the reason that these orgs make any money at all. It's good to hear that they're being taken care of.
First of all Affliction doesn't fight in a cage. Second of all I am all for fighters making this kind of money. The problem is that no company can afford to pay them that amount of money, including Affliction. If Affliction keeps paying these kind of salaries they will go out of business.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
The Villes loss was what a week ago? Before That loss he was on a 5 fight win streak with a 34-5 record, wins over Josh Koscheck and Kenny Florian. Still wasn't ranked.
I'd say the losses to Parisyan and Burkman probably had something to do with that. Also the fact the five wins were not against top fighters.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
The question is where will their fighters be ranked next year, 1 or 2 losses from key guys throw off rankings quite effectivly.
A loss to a top fighter doesn't drop a fighter out of the rankings. In order for that to happen another fighter has to beat him that isn't in the rankings. For example should Rampage not be considered LHW elite, because of his loss to Griffin. Should Arlovski or Barnett drop out of the top 10 heavyweights after one of them loses to the other.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Wow! Aren't you the same guy who said "Sheilds shot himself in the foot when he deciced to take the money EliteXC offerd him........rather than fighting the best...

So now you're saying that he should be concerned with money?
No what I am saying is moving to DREAM wouldn't move him up in the rankings or benefit him financially, so why go?

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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
If you're asking what I honestly think about Huerta and his ambitions.........Well he is 6-0 in the UFC. Now according to you, only the best fight in the UFC. So he's looking pretty valuable to me.
I'll be the first to admit that UFC protects certain fighters. Huerta is one of those guys, by not fighting top guys. Mostly they didn't want the Sports Illustrated Cover boy to lose. Don't get me wrong his win over Guida was impressive, but he's not a top 10 guy. I think after a loss to Florian, he'll have to accept less. If he does pull out the upset, the UFC will have to get out their checkbook.




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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Maybe you should tell him so. He does hold a victory over the UFCs current LHW champion in Forrest Griffen.
You right he did win a controversial decision 2 years ago. Unfortunately Forrest Griffin (spelled correctly) has grown exponentially as a fighter since then, and Tito's skills have diminished. He just looks flat in the cage. He doesn't have the explosiveness, that he used.



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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
If it doesn't matter what I think than why do you continue to engage in this debate? Sounds to me like it matters to you.
I'm really bored. That's why.
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
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First of all Affliction doesn't fight in a cage.
Your knowledge is endless.

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Second of all I am all for fighters making this kind of money. The problem is that no company can afford to pay them that amount of money, including Affliction.
They just did.

Quote:
I'd say the losses to Parisyan and Burkman probably had something to do with that.
Taken out of the top ten, with his record. Parisyan and Burkman losses. Victories over Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck......out of the top ten? Sure that makes perfect sense.

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A loss to a top fighter doesn't drop a fighter out of the rankings.
Not even a 10er? Like say.....Mat Serra?

Quote:
For example should Rampage not be considered LHW elite, because of his loss to Griffin.
No, absolutly not. I would say Rampage is LHW top 5.

Quote:
Should Arlovski or Barnett drop out of the top 10 heavyweights after one of them loses to the other.
No, they should however drop a few down though. A loss is a loss.

Quote:
No what I am saying is moving to DREAM wouldn't move him up in the rankings or benefit him financially, so why go?
No, what you said was why should he fight in Japan, American fighters don't get paid well over there. Your words not mine.

Quote:
I'll be the first to admit that UFC protects certain fighters. Huerta is one of those guys, by not fighting top guys.
Are you in essence saying that they through media and fight timing create top fighters?

These Best as you call them are being protected until the time is right?

Quote:
Mostly they didn't want the Sports Illustrated Cover boy to lose.
They gave him Guida after S.I. That is not protection.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong his win over Guida was impressive
You don't have to tell me, I watched the fight.

Quote:
I think after a loss to Florian, he'll have to accept less. If he does pull out the upset, the UFC will have to get out their checkbook.
I think Roger wants a raise. I'm pretty sure even with a loss to Kenny if such should happen, that other orgs will still shell out a hell of a lot for Huerta. He's got one fight after this one. They may have a standoff on it.

Quote:
You right he did win a controversial decision 2 years ago.
I am aware that he won. That's why I said such.

Quote:
Unfortunately Forrest Griffin (spelled correctly)
Don't attack grammar, you don't have a leg to stand on in that dept.

Quote:
grown exponentially as a fighter since then, and Tito's skills have diminished.
If Forrest lost to Machida would you say the same about him? Bottom line is that the UFC would have kept Tito had he not demanded so much money. You make petty excuses.

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I'm really bored. That's why
I find that hard to beleive.
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Old 08-09-2008, 05:42 PM   #39 (permalink)
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First of all mmaweekly, yahoo sports, sherdog.com, and tapout magazine don't have Alavarez in the top ten, so he's not top ten just because you say so. Also he only has fought under the proelite banner once. He is not under contract, therefore isn't even their fighter. As far as selling his soul to go the UFC, I don't know why you hate the UFC so much. Maybe, you really are Frank Shamrock. Maybe you work for Proelite. Any way it goes Jake Shields remaining in Elite XC, is like a great basketball player passing up the NBA to play in Europe. It doesn't matter if he likes the company or not, they are the top company with the top fighters. The reason to get locked down in a contract with the Ferritas is so that he can spend the next three years fighting the best competition and procing himself. As far as Jake being better than Fitch, you're the only one I've ever heard say that. Fitch is the consensus number 2 in the world. Also if you honestly think that Jake won't spend his entire fight with Lindland getting pounded, then you haven't seen Lindland fight. They won't weigh the same. Shields won't have to cut weight and will weigh about 185. By fight time Lindland could weigh about 200. Elite XC is a thorn in the UFC's side, one that is going to be easily pulled out and thrown in the garbage. They already have had the heads of the company step down. They are losing so much money, they need a miracle to save the company.

You seem to really like elitexc TROLL!!
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:32 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Your knowledge is endless.
I am well aware of that.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
They just did.
The point is they can't afford to continue to do so. Their own president said that fighters are going to have to make some monetary concessions. They paid big salaries in their first event to get a lot of big name heavyweights. However they are not going to be able to stay in business if they continually lose money.

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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Taken out of the top ten, with his record. Parisyan and Burkman losses. Victories over Kenny Florian and Josh Koscheck......out of the top ten? Sure that makes perfect sense.
Unfortuanately rankings are what you have done recently not 2 years ago. After the loss to Parisyan, Drew went on a five fight win streak against a bunch of journeymen. None of them were quality opponents. Also a win over Florian at 170 isn't as impressive as one at 155.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
No, what you said was why should he fight in Japan, American fighters don't get paid well over there. Your words not mine.
This is what I am saying: Since American fighters aren't paid well in DREAM and going there wouldn't help his rankings, why would he go there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Are you in essence saying that they through media and fight timing create top fighters?

These Best as you call them are being protected until the time is right?
Really Huerta is the only fighter I can think of that won five in a row before facing a real high quality opponent in the UFC. There is a timing examples, Fitch was the #2 WW and ready to face GSP. However GSP had to face Matt Serra. So instead of putting him against a top fighter the UFC protected their #1 contender by having him face Chris Wilson. It was a tune up fight. Boxers have them all the time.

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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
I think Roger wants a raise. I'm pretty sure even with a loss to Kenny if such should happen, that other orgs will still shell out a hell of a lot for Huerta. He's got one fight after this one. They may have a standoff on it.
I don't see any other organization having the money to shell out for what Huerta wants. Affliction is trying to maintain their Heavyweight roster and woo Ortiz. Elite XC doesn't have the money right now available. The UFC's offer currently is more than most guys make.

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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
I am aware that he won. That's why I said such.
My point was that it was a controversial loss.


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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
If Forrest lost to Machida would you say the same about him? Bottom line is that the UFC would have kept Tito had he not demanded so much money. You make petty excuses.
No they would have paid Tito the money he was asking for if he was a top level fighter. It wasn't that Tito lost to Machida; it was the way he lost. He fought with no energy. I just don't think a guy who over the past two years has lost twice, had a draw, and wins against over the hill Shamrock deserves the deal he wanted. He was asking for a salary that would have made him the highest paid fighter in the company. Do you think Ortiz deserves to the highest paid fighter in the company?
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