Frank Mir: ‘I dont have Fedor being in the top’ P4P MMA rankings - Page 5 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:55 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
If that theory were even close to being true, I guess you would consider Butterbean or Hong Man Choi the best P4P world Just because you weigh more, doesn't make you a better fighter, or have the better fighters.

P4P in MMA is just too damn hard to call, there are way too many factors to put into place to decide an overall #1, #2, #3 etc. etc. One night, one fighters BJJ and takedowns might be on and could easily overwelm a striker, while the next fight that striker's TDD and striking skills could KTFO out of the grappler.

That's why in boxing it is much easier to declare a P4P King, simply because boxing doesn't have a vast amount of fightings styles to account for.
well I doubt lightweights are going to be taking heavyweights any time soon .

The P4P term was made for the lower weight class fighters. Not heavyweights. You can take BJ penn or GSP and pit them against even a mediocer heavyweight and they're not likely to do very well. they have a better skillset it's just hard to use it against a trained fighter who weighs 100 lbs more than you. It's the reason we have weight classes.

I still think it's a retarded concept all together.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:17 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I never said a lightweight would take out a heavyweight.

The P4P term wasn't created just for the lower weight classes, back when fighters were known as the P4P Best Boxer's in the World, it was to establish that while they could have beat anyone in their weight class, but fighting someone in a heavier weight class just wasn't going to happen, but their skill set and technique was much more fluent they proved to be the quality fighter other fighters couldn't establish in other divisions. Floyd Mayweather Jr. is a perfect example. Could he beat Kiltschov(sp?)? Hell no. But his style, technique, everything he does is something Kiltschov doesn't display as well as Floyd does and did better than anyone else in boxing and that's why he was the P4P best boxer in the world.

Hence why Mir doesn't think Fedor is the P4P King of MMA, due to Fedor's ground game. It's not very technical or fluent as a Big Nog or Penn, he's just very physical and can man handle almost anyone he grapples with.
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:02 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
Hence why Mir doesn't think Fedor is the P4P King of MMA, due to Fedor's ground game. It's not very technical or fluent as a Big Nog or Penn, he's just very physical and can man handle almost anyone he grapples with.
There's really nothing you can say that's bad about Fedor's ground game, he sticks with the bread and butter submissions of MMA and has an incredible success rate with them. Personally, I think he has the best ground game in MMA.
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:27 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Thats how I have always considered P4P to mean, I 100% agree with Mir.
I agree too. He is just making a point it doesnt mean anything different just because he said at 155. He could of said 170 185 205 ir whatever. If every fighter in the world weighed the same who would be the best its simple people. Mir is 100% correct.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:17 PM   #45 (permalink)
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There's really nothing you can say that's bad about Fedor's ground game, he sticks with the bread and butter submissions of MMA and has an incredible success rate with them. Personally, I think he has the best ground game in MMA.
I wasn't implying his ground game was bad at all, I even said he tools anyone on the ground. But when you watch him on the ground, while it works very effectively just doesn't look like a very technical style.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:44 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
I wasn't implying his ground game was bad at all, I even said he tools anyone on the ground. But when you watch him on the ground, while it works very effectively just doesn't look like a very technical style.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't accusing you of that at all. I just think Fedor's proven that a very rudimentary style of submission grappling (keylocks, americanas, armbars, etc) can be more effective in MMA than more technical maneuvers found in BJJ (triangle-chokes, gogoplatas, etc).
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:52 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Frank Mir: "I don't have Fedor being in the top..."
Me: "That's funny, I don't have Frank Mir deserving a title shot."

Also, P4P rankings are biased against heavier fighters. They always look at what a smaller fighter would gain from being bigger (namely power) and what a bigger fighter would lose if they were smaller (again, power). However, they usually don't talk about the explosiveness a big guy would gain by being smaller, or the explosiveness a smaller guy would lose by being bigger. And you can't really say that "if they had the same attributes they have at their current weight..." because that's just not how it works. Smaller guys have attributes (speed, explosiveness, etc) that big guys don't and vice versa. You'd have to look at everything proportionally, and it's just way too hard to do objectively. And why just because P4P rankings were created for smaller fighters mean that a big guy can't be first?
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:09 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Mir let his imagination run wild on this one...

How the **** can you image that Fedor is 155, see him loosing and believe in that crap you just imagined ???????
To me all those guys are close to each other BUT Fedor's got much more experience than any of them, and he is just so fuken fluent in his game that it's ridiculous.
I'd say Anderson is sharing the same #1 spot with Fedor. Those guys are beyond limits and any comparison, both of them transition from stand up to ground as if it was the same thing, both guys are expressionless and you can't tell at all what's going to be happening. It's impossible to compare them, unless you're pretty good with imagination like Mir (he should write books, Lord of the Rings IV and V sounds good)
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