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Old 09-09-2008, 06:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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#4 right now ID.

Anderson and Franklin are obviously ahead of him.

And I gotta be honest ATM Filho is ahead of him as well although it is close.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I would say Nate has more solid wins than Lawler does. I could see someone making the case of him being in the top 5 but i would still put Filho, Hendo, franklin, Nate and Okami a head of him.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
I think Cung, and Okami are in front of him right now.

I'd say he's about #5
There is no way Cung is in front of Lawler, you only think that because Cung beat Frank, Cung isn't even a top 10 fighter, if he is, he is #10.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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There is no way Cung is in front of Lawler, you only think that because Cung beat Frank, Cung isn't even a top 10 fighter, if he is, he is #10.


That and because he's the undefeated middleweight champion of Strikeforce. Before he was an MMA fighter he was undefeated in kickboxing, and he's never been the distance in an MMA fight, either winning by K.O. or T.K.O.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ID06 View Post
I don't put Lawler that high because he's that good, but the MW division is that bad.
I don't think it's that bad... Numerically speaking there should be about the same amount of MW fighters as LHW fighters i think... So what makes a MW fighters with many wins bad and a LHW fighter with many wins good? Becuase most middleweights aren't/haven't beaten a household name!

Plus I think we're starting to get household names at MW.

Solid MW's according to joppp (no special order):

Anderson Silva
Rich Franklin
Nate Marquardt
Demian Maia
Martin Kampmann
Robbie Lawler
Jason Macdonald
Murilo Rua
Dan Henderson
Paulo Filho
Rousimar Palhares
Cung Le
Yushin Okami

I think all of the above mentioned has proven themselves to be world class MMA fighters and a lot of them are serious pimps in at least one aspect of the game. (For instance, Filho, Maia and Palhares are all world class grapplers. Henderson is/was a world class wrestler)
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't think it's that bad... Numerically speaking there should be about the same amount of MW fighters as LHW fighters i think... So what makes a MW fighters with many wins bad and a LHW fighter with many wins good? Becuase most middleweights aren't/haven't beaten a household name!

Plus I think we're starting to get household names at MW.

Solid MW's according to joppp (no special order):

Anderson Silva
Rich Franklin
Nate Marquardt 2-2 in his last 4 fights
Demian Maia No wins over solid competition
Martin Kampmann Lost his last fight
Robbie Lawler
Jason Macdonald 3-3 in his last 6 fights
Murilo Rua Lawler beat him
Dan Henderson 1-1 in his last 2 MW fights, hasn't been very active at MW
Paulo Filho This is one of the only question marks, I could see him ranked above Lawler, we'll see if he beats Sonnen again
Rousimar Palhares Just lost to Hendo
Cung Le No wins over solid competition, except for Frank Shamrock
Yushin Okami Recently lost to Rich Franklin, hasn't beaten a top ten fighter since.

I think all of the above mentioned has proven themselves to be world class MMA fighters and a lot of them are serious pimps in at least one aspect of the game. (For instance, Filho, Maia and Palhares are all world class grapplers. Henderson is/was a world class wrestler)
.....
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
That and because he's the undefeated middleweight champion of Strikeforce. Before he was an MMA fighter he was undefeated in kickboxing, and he's never been the distance in an MMA fight, either winning by K.O. or T.K.O.
Who has he beaten besides Frank though? and his kickboxing record doesn't matter because this is MMA.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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.....
On several of those you have "lost to X" as an excuse to why they are not solid. How can losing to ONE fighter make you not-solid if that fighter was a great fighter to begin with. As for for instance Palhares: Losing to Dan Henderson is nothing to be ashamed about, it just means Henderson is the better fighter that's all.

Also, just because some people have bad records in their recent fight doesn't mean they suck. Nate marqudardt IS solid and he's proven that by knocking out the standup guy (Kampmann) and submitted the grappler (Horn, who by the way it took Chuck 4 rounds to finish. Don't take it for MMA math just think about it). His loss to Leites wasn't really a loss now was it?

However, you are right as far as rankings are concerned (i.e. that Lawler, Andrson and Franklin are the only ones who on paper looks really solid). But IMO the MW divison is not weak, it is a myth created by the fact that there are so few MW's with household names and recognition.

Just my oppinion, but please consider it.
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Who has he beaten besides Frank though? and his kickboxing record doesn't matter because this is MMA.
He's beaten everyone he's fought. Just because his competition wasn't in the UFC doesn't make them non valid fighters. This is something that is becoming common place.
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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He's beaten everyone he's fought. Just because his competition wasn't in the UFC doesn't make them non valid fighters. This is something that is becoming common place.
I understand he has beaten everyone he has fought and I could care less if any of them haven't been in the UFC because you can be a good fighter and not be in the UFC and actually his last four opponents have fought in the UFC before.
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