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Old 09-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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J.P. I love to support non UFC fighters especially at LW and MW however Cung isn't a top 5 MW. He's barely top 10 if that.

He has one win that is good and the rest of his wins are over scrubs.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cdnbaron View Post
I personally have him at #4, behind the two guys you mentioned and Filho. You can definitely make a case for him at #3 or even 2 (since Franklin seems like he's going to be sticking around LHW for a while too), I just see him sitting in behind those three guys.

The level of Filho's dominance over Sonnen this time around will really determine who I put at 3 and 4.
OH EM GEE.

This forum is slaying me today.

Sonnen will run over Filho, and WAS running over him until he became drunk and took him down.

Sonnen > Filho
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I understand he has beaten everyone he has fought and I could care less if any of them haven't been in the UFC because you can be a good fighter and not be in the UFC and actually his last four opponents have fought in the UFC before.
So with that said, him beating fighters who have comepeted in big shows like UFC, Strikeforce, and EliteXC and finishing all of them.

Never going to decision and holding a title in a regognized org like Strikeforce, you wouldn't consider him top tier? If so, for conversations sake ton a top 10 list where would he fare in your opinion?

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Originally Posted by bbjd7 View Post
J.P. I love to support non UFC fighters especially at LW and MW however Cung isn't a top 5 MW. He's barely top 10 if that.

He has one win that is good and the rest of his wins are over scrubs.
I couldn't agree less with you.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ID06 View Post
I don't put Lawler that high because he's that good, but the MW division is that bad.

Who has Filho beaten recently to deserve a top 3 spot?
Um...Chael Sonnen, someone definitely more important than Scott Smith.

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Old 09-10-2008, 03:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
So with that said, him beating fighters who have comepeted in big shows like UFC, Strikeforce, and EliteXC and finishing all of them.

Never going to decision and holding a title in a regognized org like Strikeforce, you wouldn't consider him top tier? If so, for conversations sake ton a top 10 list where would he fare in your opinion?
I honestly don't know where I would put him. Yeah it is impressive that he has not gone to a decision yet but with the people he has faced anybody in the top 15 could(except maybe go to a DEC with Shamrock)
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:21 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I honestly don't know where I would put him. Yeah it is impressive that he has not gone to a decision yet but with the people he has faced anybody in the top 15 could(except maybe go to a DEC with Shamrock)
I just find it Ironic that if he had those identical fights under a UFC banner, he'd easily be considered a top fiver.

The reason being is that his opponents would be more recognzable. They've had more spotlight, which apparently makes them somebody.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Thats my opinion but def a top Middleweight right now. 185 isnt as weak as people think though its really deep and really talented. Guys like Maia, jacare, Miller, Leites, Kampmann, Hendo, Palharres, and Cote make this weight class very deep even if it isnt full of tier 1 fighters right now.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
I just find it Ironic that if he had those identical fights under a UFC banner, he'd easily be considered a top fiver.

The reason being is that his opponents would be more recognzable. They've had more spotlight, which apparently makes them somebody.
I wouldn't even consider him a title contender, but if he was in the UFC he probably would have already had a step up in competition(which he already has by fighting Frank though but I am talking a couple fights ago).
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'll have to go back on my Yushin Okami statement, didn't he lose to Niko Vitale?

And Lawler has defeated Vitale.

Robbie hasn't lost since 06. Okami has two losses since than, and his Silva victory is via DQ so it's hard to count in my books so in my opinion Lawler is ahead of Okami.

Lawler has also defeated Joey Villasenor. Villasenor was coming off of a victory against The Crow, Loseiau.

And as far as a "step up in competition" Cung takes on all in given to him. The "Step up" as was stated,is merely a more recognized name because of exposure, not necessarily the better fighter.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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On several of those you have "lost to X" as an excuse to why they are not solid. How can losing to ONE fighter make you not-solid if that fighter was a great fighter to begin with. As for for instance Palhares: Losing to Dan Henderson is nothing to be ashamed about, it just means Henderson is the better fighter that's all.

Also, just because some people have bad records in their recent fight doesn't mean they suck. Nate marqudardt IS solid and he's proven that by knocking out the standup guy (Kampmann) and submitted the grappler (Horn, who by the way it took Chuck 4 rounds to finish. Don't take it for MMA math just think about it). His loss to Leites wasn't really a loss now was it?

However, you are right as far as rankings are concerned (i.e. that Lawler, Andrson and Franklin are the only ones who on paper looks really solid). But IMO the MW divison is not weak, it is a myth created by the fact that there are so few MW's with household names and recognition.

Just my oppinion, but please consider it.
A loss to a top fighter is still a loss, I also could have gone into the fact Palhares hasn't defeated or even faced top level competition aside from Henderson.

And please someone list a top fighter that Cung Le has beaten, it's not like Shamrock was a top fighter when Cung beat him anyway.
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