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Old 10-05-2008, 02:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Shields may not have looked as crisp as he usually does, but he did his job.

He had Daley mounted 3 times, went for three arm bars, scored 4 takedowns and ended the fight in the second by submission.

He was never rocked or hurt by Daleys punches, and so what if he didn't want to engage with Daley in a standing war. He was smart for not trading with a guy who has about 13 knockouts out of 15 victories or so.

Bottom line is he played his game and won. As far as gassing is concerned, his tank has never emptied in a fight. He's been the distance before.

A sloppy performance doesn't take away from the fact that he hasn't lost since '04 and has solid victories over decent opponents. Even Semtex is a notch in his belt. Every one has an off night. I find it funny how one sloppy performance is erasing years of accomplishments in some peoples eyes.
I thought Sheilds did a hell of a job against Daley. Daley has some extremely fast hands! It would have been retarded to engage with him on the feet.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A "sloppy performance" would indicate that Shields actually has striking skills which he doesn't. He wasn't fighting smart with Daley he was fighting scared. His wrestling didn't look good because he was scared to shoot in, his gnp was very weak because he has no power in his strikes, and most people were saying that as soon as the fight hit the ground Shields would sub Daley which wasn't the case. He had Daley mounted for at least 3 minutes of the fight and for someone with no ground game that's a long time to take to sub Daley. In the UFC: GSP, Kos, Sanchez, Fitch, Alves, maybe Hughes would all beat him.

As far as this win streak, Okami was a good win, Condit is only a good win because of Condit's name now not what it was when they fought two years ago. If they were to fight again I am pretty confident that Condit would beat Shields. Nick Thompson is a nice win but what other win should impress you in this win streak? Verissimo and Pyle are second tier fighters and the rest of the guys weren't good. Imada (19-11) doesn't have a big win and at one point lost 5 fights in a row, Menne (39-15-2) always been an average fighter, Berger (19-18) lol, Steinbeiss (10-5) another fighter who had 5 straight losses at one point, Pariente (8-3) again hasn't fought anybody.

The fact that anybody was putting Shields as a top 3 or top 5 is laughable.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Man, you guys are bashing Shields for fighting the same way Nate Diaz fights... Except he tries to avoid punishment.

You guys keep saying Daley has no ground game, but get real: The guy knew he was going to be fighting Shields. You don't think he trained extensively on the ground???

And even so, Sheilds was able to get the mount at will. He was being really cautious because Daley is explosive and was trying to buck out every time Shields would go for something.

You guys are not giving either fighter enough credit IMO.

That fight looked good to me and I'm as experienced of a fan as anyone else here.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Bottom line is he didn't commit to his punches while standing because he was lookin ahead of them for the shot. He may have been scared to stand with Daley, Daleys power will knock any fighter out.

Funny how a victory over Condit means nothing now because Condit didn't have a name than.......But Sheilds would lose today because Condit has a name now.

Shields win streak is impressive. 11 in a row. Including Daley, Yushin Okami, Carlos Condit, and Thompson. 5 out of the 11 victories were in the 1st. Undefeated since 2004. I can't take that away because he may have not been crisp last night. He may have took his weight cut badly this time. He's established himself in his fights as a dangerous WW.

To not consider his a top 5er is a complete joke.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1z View Post
Man, you guys are bashing Shields for fighting the same way Nate Diaz fights... Except he tries to avoid punishment.
Did you not see Nate's last fight becuase in no way does Shields fight like that. Nate wasn't scared to engage and actually did well on the feet. But I'm assuming you will say you meant Nick.

Quote:
You guys keep saying Daley has no ground game, but get real: The guy knew he was going to be fighting Shields. You don't think he trained extensively on the ground???
Knowing Daley I doubt he did extensive training for the ground.

Quote:
And even so, Sheilds was able to get the mount at will. He was being really cautious because Daley is explosive and was trying to buck out every time Shields would go for something.
Actually Daley wasn't bucking, hence why Frank kept talking about why he should buck.

Quote:
You guys are not giving either fighter enough credit IMO.
I give credit where credit is due and Shields did nothing to back up what people say about him.

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That fight looked good to me and I'm as experienced of a fan as anyone else here.
Lol, what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
Bottom line is he didn't commit to his punches while standing because he was lookin ahead of them for the shot. He may have been scared to stand with Daley, Daleys power will knock any fighter out.
With his lack of standup he will be afraid to stand with many fighters. He didn't commit to strikes because he can't strike.

Quote:
Funny how a victory over Condit means nothing now because Condit didn't have a name than.......But Sheilds would lose today because Condit has a name now.
Now if we read what I said we would know this isn't what I said. Carlos has improved since their fight and is the better overall fighter now, hence why I said he would beat him now and why people give Shields credit for a win over Condit even though Condit isn't the same fighter.

Quote:
Shields win streak is impressive. 11 in a row. Including Daley, Yushin Okami, Carlos Condit, and Thompson. 5 out of the 11 victories were in the 1st. Undefeated since 2004. I can't take that away because he may have not been crisp last night. He may have took his weight cut badly this time. He's established himself in his fights as a dangerous WW.
3 out of 11 wins were good wins and that impresses you? There are plenty of guys at local events that have a similar record should I be impressed by them. Who you fight is actualy means something and Shields only has 3 (giving you Condit) good wins in that 11 fight win streak. He is dangerous against second tier fighters.

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To not consider his a top 5er is a complete joke.
He is only thought of in the top 5 because of record but if he came to the UFC he wouldn't be able to beat the contenders at WW.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MLS View Post
Did you not see Nate's last fight becuase in no way does Shields fight like that. Nate wasn't scared to engage and actually did well on the feet. But I'm assuming you will say you meant Nick.
No, I meant Nate, but include Nick in their too if you like. But I also said the difference was that Shields tried to avoid punishment, so no Shields didn't engage much.

Neither Nate or Nick has much power in their shots, they both set a semi-slow pace, and they both usually win with superior jitz. Sounds a lot like last night's fight to me.

Quote:
Knowing Daley I doubt he did extensive training for the ground.
Admittedly, I don't know Daley that well.


Quote:
Actually Daley wasn't bucking, hence why Frank kept talking about why he should buck.
Well, I may have used the wrong terminology, but Daley would nearly roll out of the mount when Daley would go for submissions.



Quote:
I give credit where credit is due and Shields did nothing to back up what people say about him.
Nothing? You have no idea how anyone could think of him as a top fighter? Really?

If so, it's fine. It's just a difference of opinion.


Quote:
Lol, what?
I was just pointing out that I follow the game as much as anybody else and I thought it was a good fight. Not Shields best showing for sure, but Daley was a game opponent and I thought it was a good fight.

Standing, Daley is one of the most dangerous guys in the game IMO.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1z View Post
No, I meant Nate, but include Nick in their too if you like. But I also said the difference was that Shields tried to avoid punishment, so no Shields didn't engage much.

Neither Nate or Nick has much power in their shots, they both set a semi-slow pace, and they both usually win with superior jitz. Sounds a lot like last night's fight to me.
Both Diaz brothers push the pace whether the fight is on the ground or on the feet (actaully watch their fights because there is no way you can say they set a slow pace). They will both engage the other fighter on the feet and aren't scared to get hit. They both have superior striking to Shields. The only real similarity is the lack of power but again the pace that both Diaz brothers set off sets that where Shields doesn't.

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Admittedly, I don't know Daley that well.
That's obvious.

Quote:
Well, I may have used the wrong terminology, but Daley would nearly roll out of the mount when Daley would go for submissions.
He would just try and give up his back. He was not really attempting to get out of the mount and the only time he did was when Shields went for the armbar.


Quote:
Nothing? You have no idea how anyone could think of him as a top fighter? Really?

If so, it's fine. It's just a difference of opinion.
When did I say he wasn't a top fighter? I said he wasn't a top 5.

Quote:
I was just pointing out that I follow the game as much as anybody else and I thought it was a good fight. Not Shields best showing for sure, but Daley was a game opponent and I thought it was a good fight.
You being a "fight fan" doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the fight was good.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J.P. View Post
To not consider his a top 5er is a complete joke.
To be top 5 you have to be capable of beating someone in the top 5. Taking the MMA weekly rankings for the sake of argument:

#1 Georges St. Pierre

2. Jon Fitch

3. Thiago Alves

4. Josh Koscheck

5. Jake Shields

6. Matt Hughes

7. Matt Serra

8. Diego Sanchez

9. Carlos Condit

10. Karo Parisyan

Who does he beat on this list? I can not picture him beating GSP, Fitch, Koscheck, Sanchez, or Alves. Serra he beats for sure but Serra is obviously not a top 10 WW, his presence on this list is an abomination. Condit he obviously has already beat. Hughes and Parisyan he might beat but I can see those going either way. That isn't top 5 to me, top 10 maybe. Top 5, no way.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLS View Post
Both Diaz brothers push the pace whether the fight is on the ground or on the feet (actaully watch their fights because there is no way you can say they set a slow pace). They will both engage the other fighter on the feet and aren't scared to get hit. They both have superior striking to Shields. The only real similarity is the lack of power but again the pace that both Diaz brothers set off sets that where Shields doesn't.



That's obvious.


He would just try and give up his back. He was not really attempting to get out of the mount and the only time he did was when Shields went for the armbar.


When did I say he wasn't a top fighter? I said he wasn't a top 5.


You being a "fight fan" doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the fight was good.
You seem like your getting irritated with me just because I disagree with you, so I'll stop.

Sorry that a difference of opinion is so insulting.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I still like Shields. I think hes just outside the top 5.
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