***The Official Jake Shields War Wagon*** - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
General MMA Discussion Discuss King Of The Cage, Ultimate Challenge UK, and HDNet Fights as well as general mixed martial arts discussion.

Reply

Old 10-05-2008, 02:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
On a Rampage
 
rockybalboa25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,845
Blog Entries: 1
rockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatnessrockybalboa25 Is Destined For Greatness
If last night was indicative of Shields striking ability (I'm still not completely convinced that's the best Shields has), I would have to say that Nate Diaz has better striking. Shields is obviously a better wrestler. I do think that Shields needs better striking to compete with the WW elite of the UFC. He needs to use his striking to set up his strikes. Also he needs to work on his power so that he can hurt a fighter from the top to open up submissions. I am much more impressed with Shield's win over Okami than Condit. I have never thought that highly of Condit. I've said this before that I don't know if last night was Shields at his best, but if it was he is going to have a problem with guys who are accomplished on the ground and can still strike ie Sanchez, Fitch, and GSP.
rockybalboa25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-05-2008, 02:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
MLS
Banned
 
MLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Backseat of the PlazzVan
Posts: 6,472
Blog Entries: 2
MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS
Lol wow. You think I'm irritated because I pointed out it's obvious you don't know Daley because you thought he would extensively train his bjj, that is me stating the truth. Or is it that everything you try and bring up is refuted?
MLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 02:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
Cheesy Poofs
 
stitch1z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,588
stitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLS View Post
Lol wow. You think I'm irritated because I pointed out it's obvious you don't know Daley because you thought he would extensively train his bjj, that is me stating the truth. Or is it that everything you try and bring up is refuted?
No, but your apparently so blinded by irritation that you don't even read my points.

You explain in detail that the major difference between Shields and the Diaz bros is that the Diaz clan likes to engage. In my FIRST explanation I conceded that Shields didn't want to get hit. So obviously he didn't push the pace.

But like it or not, the Diaz bros do use a slow, steady pace in their fights and impose that on their opponents.

I explicitly say that I am not very familiar with Daley, and you feel compelled tosay "That is obvious". Well, I guess it is obvious. It's really obvious after I said it.

Then you say that the only time Daley tried to escape was when Shields went for an armbar. That was my point. Whenever Shields went for something he risked Daley escaping.

Then you think I accuse you of considering Shields a top 5... Go back and look at my post: I asked you if you really can't see how SOMEONE might see Shields as a top 5. I think he has accomplished enough to lead some to believe he COULD be top 5 (I haven't claimed him as such BTW)

And I'm not and haven't said that me being a "fight fan" has anything to do with it being a good fight. All that I meant is that I am an educated fan, and TO ME it was a good fight.


The reason I assume your irritated is because you're ignoring parts of what I'm posting and you seem to be addressing me like I'm some sort of nut-hugger trying to save my boy's rep, which is not the case.

I'm only expressing my opinions. I thought it was a good fight, and I think the general consensus on this thread is unfairly bashing a guy that fought well IN MY OPINION.
__________________



Don Frye's Mustache > Kimbo's Beard
stitch1z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 03:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
MLS
Banned
 
MLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Backseat of the PlazzVan
Posts: 6,472
Blog Entries: 2
MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1z View Post
No, but your apparently so blinded by irritation that you don't even read my points.
lol, it seems with the dialect being used you, not me is the one that is irritated.

Quote:
You explain in detail that the major difference between Shields and the Diaz bros is that the Diaz clan likes to engage. In my FIRST explanation I conceded that Shields didn't want to get hit. So obviously he didn't push the pace.
You said that Shields and the Diaz brothers fight the same, this is not true which is what I said.

Quote:
But like it or not, the Diaz bros do use a slow, steady pace in their fights and impose that on their opponents.
Ever wonder why people say that both Diaz brothers have great conditioning? It's because they are constantly pushing the pace. They do set a steady pace but not a slow pace. Show me a Diaz fight that has a slow pace please.

Quote:
I explicitly say that I am not very familiar with Daley, and you feel compelled tosay "That is obvious". Well, I guess it is obvious. It's really obvious after I said it.
So I agree and I'm wrong?

Quote:
Then you say that the only time Daley tried to escape was when Shields went for an armbar. That was my point. Whenever Shields went for something he risked Daley escaping.
No, Daley only go out of the mount when Shields went for the armbar because the cage prevented the armbar. There was no real risk of Daley escaping because Daley wasn't putting up much of a defense on the ground.

Quote:
Then you think I accuse you of considering Shields a top 5... Go back and look at my post: I asked you if you really can't see how SOMEONE might see Shields as a top 5. I think he has accomplished enough to lead some to believe he COULD be top 5 (I haven't claimed him as such BTW)
Actually you asked me, "You have no idea how anyone could think of him as a top fighter? Really?" Which is why I said, "when did I say he wasn't a top fighter?" which implies that I can see where some people would consider him a top fighter.

Quote:
And I'm not and haven't said that me being a "fight fan" has anything to do with it being a good fight. All that I meant is that I am an educated fan, and TO ME it was a good fight.
Why did you feel that you must include "fight fan" in there then? Sounds like what people say about Machida and only real fans enjoy him.

Quote:
The reason I assume your irritated is because you're ignoring parts of what I'm posting and you seem to be addressing me like I'm some sort of nut-hugger trying to save my boy's rep, which is not the case.
Not ignoring as I have addressed every point you have tried to make.

Quote:
I'm only expressing my opinions. I thought it was a good fight, and I think the general consensus on this thread is unfairly bashing a guy that fought well IN MY OPINION.
Good for you but some of your "facts" i.e. diaz brothers have a slow pace is wrong.
MLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 04:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
Cheesy Poofs
 
stitch1z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,588
stitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crosses
Dude, you just want to argue. That's why I wanted to leave this alone. You're still ignoring my points, putting words into my mouth (for lack of better words, lol), and twisting things I say.

You win. You're right. I'm out of this "discussion".

Shields sucks, Daley couldn't have possibly done any ground training, the Diaz bros are lightning fast and everything I've stated as opinion I actually believe to be fact.
__________________



Don Frye's Mustache > Kimbo's Beard
stitch1z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 04:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
MLS
Banned
 
MLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Backseat of the PlazzVan
Posts: 6,472
Blog Entries: 2
MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS
If you are going to make such erroneous claims like those at least back them up.

How do I twist your words and put words in your mouth when you quote yourself worng?
MLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 04:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
Cheesy Poofs
 
stitch1z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,588
stitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLS View Post
If you are going to make such erroneous claims like those at least back them up.

How do I twist your words and put words in your mouth when you quote yourself worng?
I haven't made any erroneous claims as fact that I'm aware of.

I've stated my opinions. What facts are you talking about?
__________________



Don Frye's Mustache > Kimbo's Beard
stitch1z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 04:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
MLS
Banned
 
MLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Backseat of the PlazzVan
Posts: 6,472
Blog Entries: 2
MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS
This.

Quote:
You're still ignoring my points, putting words into my mouth (for lack of better words, lol), and twisting things I say.
MLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 04:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
Cheesy Poofs
 
stitch1z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,588
stitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crossesstitch1z Is Respected By All He Crosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLS View Post
This.
Once again, I started by saying:
Quote:
Man, you guys are bashing Shields for fighting the same way Nate Diaz fights... Except he tries to avoid punishment.
The bold part is important.

You responded:

Quote:
Did you not see Nate's last fight becuase in no way does Shields fight like that. Nate wasn't scared to engage and actually did well on the feet. But I'm assuming you will say you meant Nick.
Nate and Nick both engage because they don't mind getting hit. Maybe not clear as day in my above post, so I tried to explain in more detail what I meant:

Quote:
No, I meant Nate, but include Nick in their too if you like. But I also said the difference was that Shields tried to avoid punishment, so no Shields didn't engage much.
Neither Nate or Nick has much power in their shots, they both set a semi-slow pace, and they both usually win with superior jitz. Sounds a lot like last night's fight to me.
To which you responded:

Quote:
Both Diaz brothers push the pace whether the fight is on the ground or on the feet (actaully watch their fights because there is no way you can say they set a slow pace). They will both engage the other fighter on the feet and aren't scared to get hit. They both have superior striking to Shields. The only real similarity is the lack of power but again the pace that both Diaz brothers set off sets that where Shields doesn't.
Your arguing to make the same point I already made and agreed with. Hence, twisting or ignoring my statements.

And as far as not being able to say they set a slow pace, I disagree. IN MY OPINION they fight slower than their opponents in most cases, which eventually wears their opponent down from trying to speed it up and eventually, tired, they come down to the Diaz's level. Major difference to me: the Diaz bros. are still fresh by the time it inevitably happens because it was the pace they set all along.

This is the major part of the exchange between you and I that I felt ignored and attacked for my opinions.
__________________



Don Frye's Mustache > Kimbo's Beard
stitch1z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 04:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
MLS
Banned
 
MLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Backseat of the PlazzVan
Posts: 6,472
Blog Entries: 2
MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1z View Post
Once again, I started by saying:

The bold part is important.

You responded:
Reading the post as a whole generally helps as I preface this post with this, "Did you not see Nate's last fight becuase in no way does Shields fight like that." The part you bolded was just proof of this I could have elaborated even more but didn't feel the need to because it's quite obvious the difference in Nate's fight and the Shields fight.

Quote:
Nate and Nick both engage because they don't mind getting hit. Maybe not clear as day in my above post, so I tried to explain in more detail what I meant:

To which you responded:

Your arguing to make the same point I already made and agreed with. Hence, twisting or ignoring my statements.
Same as above, no twisting of words here. Which this one I did elaborate on.

Quote:
And as far as not being able to say they set a slow pace, I disagree. IN MY OPINION they fight slower than their opponents in most cases, which eventually wears their opponent down from trying to speed it up and eventually, tired, they come down to the Diaz's level. Major difference to me: the Diaz bros. are still fresh by the time it inevitably happens because it was the pace they set all along.
Let's look at Nate's last fight, yeah fight was pushed by him. He was more agressive on the feet and when he was on his back he went for subs. Now his gnp does need some work because that was the only place he really stalled. All of his fights in the UFC and WEC have been like this except the TUF Finale.

Nick is constantly throwing strikes, while not powerful, they are constant and he keeps coming foward i.e Gomi fight. The Gomi fight is almost like every fight Nick has, the high pace that Nick set was what wore down Gomi, plus the fact that it's Gomi and he was in Vegas. As with Nate, when on his back Nick is constantly working for a sub. I'm not sure how constantly working could equal a slow pace.

Quote:
This is the major part of the exchange between you and I that I felt ignored and attacked for my opinions.
Not ignored you just didn't read the whole posts.
MLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios