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Old 10-22-2008, 05:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The fall of Elite XC....the future of the sport?

Well Elite XC has folded, just as many of us thought it would. My question is two fold. How long do you think other promotions will last? DREAM is in serious financial trouble. Affliction lost quite a bit of money on their first promotion and have not set a date for their second show as of yet. Also they have merged with Golden Boy who haven't pulled descent numbers in many of their boxing promotions.

The second part of the argument is will the UFC become basically the only dog in the fight, and if so is that a bad thing? I know that the immediate response is of course it's bad. But lets look at the facts. Does the NFL suffer from being the only league people care about. Honestly how often do you watch Arena or the CFL?

Imagine if you didn't have to wonder what would happen in the Silva vs Lindland fight. Imagine if Fedor, Couture, Barnett, NOG, Lesnar, and Arlovski had to fight each other. Separate titles is killing boxing.

I know another problem people say is the lack of events to showcase all the talent. Imagine if you could see a stacked card every 2 weeks. Some of the lesser guys could get some exposure on televised prelims.

One thing I would say that is absolutely necessary for the UFC if they are the only fighting organization. That is a fighters union, similar to the NFL players union. That would guarantee good salaries for fighters, set up health care and retirement plans, and help solve ranking and other grievances. It's just a thought.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd love it if all the best fighters could find under one promoter, with one title in each weight class, but there are so many things that make this near impossible.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I guess it wouldnt be a bad thing if they had something like a fighters union cause if not and ufc was the only big promotion they could underpay fighters like crazy
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Strikeforce and Sengoku are both doing well I believe. And even if the other orgs all fold, as long as the UFC is still building interest in the sport, there is money to be made and either existing orgs (Sportfight, AFL, RITC, KOTC) can grow into real contenders instead of just feeders, or investors can create new promotions as has happened so often in the past. There will always be someone wanting to challenge the UFC.
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Strikeforce and Sengoku are both doing well I believe. And even if the other orgs all fold, as long as the UFC is still building interest in the sport, there is money to be made and either existing orgs (Sportfight, AFL, RITC, KOTC) can grow into real contenders instead of just feeders, or investors can create new promotions as has happened so often in the past. There will always be someone wanting to challenge the UFC.
I agree. These organizations could make money like many minor league baseball franchises do. I really don't know what Sengoku's financial situation is. I don't see why it's impossible to get all these fighters together, as someone said. Especially if the UFC is the only major organization that can afford to pay big money. I think that there would be a lot of guys willing to come to the UFC if they had a union that would fight for their rights as fighters.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The turn of events were described accurately with the question, "what happens to Kimbo Slice and Gina Corrano?" B/C both had a following, does that translate over into UFC...probably not. What about the other legit guys (Shields, Alvarez, Sonnen, Philho, etc.?

As it stands right now, there are probably more fighters than there are venues. If UFC is the NFL, can it expand and still be profitable? Boxing is able to have cards Wed, Thurs, Fri and have a PPV or HBO/SHOWTIME presentation on Sat. becuase there are so many fans, so many fighters and the money doesn't come just from one source. UFC is probably not in the position to sign all of the legits out there. I do hope MMA continues, even if some of the international leagues start showcasing events on channels.

BTW, Ufc fighters can get $1000 bucks a fight. That is twice what some boxers get paid with experience.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The turn of events were described accurately with the question, "what happens to Kimbo Slice and Gina Corrano?" B/C both had a following, does that translate over into UFC...probably not. What about the other legit guys (Shields, Alvarez, Sonnen, Philho, etc.?

As it stands right now, there are probably more fighters than there are venues. If UFC is the NFL, can it expand and still be profitable? Boxing is able to have cards Wed, Thurs, Fri and have a PPV or HBO/SHOWTIME presentation on Sat. becuase there are so many fans, so many fighters and the money doesn't come just from one source. UFC is probably not in the position to sign all of the legits out there. I do hope MMA continues, even if some of the international leagues start showcasing events on channels.

BTW, Ufc fighters can get $1000 bucks a fight. That is twice what some boxers get paid with experience.
I know how poorly some boxers are paid. The problem with you're synopsis is the premise that boxing is making money. Most boxing promotions are struggling to get viewers or selling out arenas. Golden boy hasn't been able to promote fights very successfully outside of Pacquiao, Hopkins, De la hoya, and Hatton. They haven't been able to do PPV numbers or fill arenas. The Juan Diaz vs Julio Diaz fight that was a title unification bout at lightweight didn't even fill half of the Sears center.
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
The second part of the argument is will the UFC become basically the only dog in the fight, and if so is that a bad thing? I know that the immediate response is of course it's bad. But lets look at the facts. Does the NFL suffer from being the only league people care about. Honestly how often do you watch Arena or the CFL?
Imagine if you didn't have to wonder what would happen in the Silva vs Lindland fight. Imagine if Fedor, Couture, Barnett, NOG, Lesnar, and Arlovski had to fight each other. Separate titles is killing boxing.


One thing I would say that is absolutely necessary for the UFC if they are the only fighting organization. That is a fighters union, similar to the NFL players union. That would guarantee good salaries for fighters, set up health care and retirement plans, and help solve ranking and other grievances. It's just a thought.
I want to see the best fighters fighting each other. There is only two ways for that to happen;

1) Unlimited cross promotion if there are multiple large promoters/organizations.

2) Having one organization that is the universally recognized "top", the equivalent of the NFL. Smaller orgs would exist as a feeder system.

I would be happy with either situation but I think #1 is impossible so I'm rooting for #2. A monopoly is not a bad thing IF there has been sufficient competition leading up to the monopoly. As long as the creation of the monopoly involved significant competitors then the fighters will be treated reasonably well and their salaries will approach market value.

If you look at the 4 major North American sports they all followed the pattern of having a number of competing leagues that either merged into one or saw all but one fall by the wayside. The end result of one dominant league is best for the fans because all the best talent ends up in one place.

Early competition followed by monopoly, that's what we want to see in MMA and that is exactly what we are seeing right now I believe. Ultimately I think the UFC will end up as the single major organization (as long as there is one I don't care who it is, UFC, Affliction, whatever).

The fighters will probably need a union but the threat of competition is always there (see the XFL in football, the WHA in hockey) to keep the "main" league honest.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, the UFC seems MMA as their creation...or at least the modern version. The problem with EliteXC and other organizations that have failed, is that they want to be on par with the UFC's success, right now. They need to start small and work their way up. Going $50 million in debt in your first year or two is a crappy business plan. As is building a business around untested fighters and not the sport itself.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogo View Post
I want to see the best fighters fighting each other. There is only two ways for that to happen;

1) Unlimited cross promotion if there are multiple large promoters/organizations.

2) Having one organization that is the universally recognized "top", the equivalent of the NFL. Smaller orgs would exist as a feeder system.

I would be happy with either situation but I think #1 is impossible so I'm rooting for #2. A monopoly is not a bad thing IF there has been sufficient competition leading up to the monopoly. As long as the creation of the monopoly involved significant competitors then the fighters will be treated reasonably well and their salaries will approach market value.

If you look at the 4 major North American sports they all followed the pattern of having a number of competing leagues that either merged into one or saw all but one fall by the wayside. The end result of one dominant league is best for the fans because all the best talent ends up in one place.

Early competition followed by monopoly, that's what we want to see in MMA and that is exactly what we are seeing right now I believe. Ultimately I think the UFC will end up as the single major organization (as long as there is one I don't care who it is, UFC, Affliction, whatever).

The fighters will probably need a union but the threat of competition is always there (see the XFL in football, the WHA in hockey) to keep the "main" league honest.
I agree with what you're saying. I liken the UFC to the NBA, and PRIDE to the ABA. The ABA came up with some of the most inventive things for basketball. The alley oop, three point line, and the shot clock all came from the ABA. The ABA was just mismanaged. I think the same thing happened with PRIDE. I think the UFC had plenty of competition coming up. The XFL folded after one year. I would liken Elite XC to the XFL. I must admit I don't know anything about hockey.

The one thing I don't agree about is the unlimited cross promotion. I don't think that is possible. Technically boxing has that. But greedy promoters keep the best fighters from fighting each others.
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