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General MMA Discussion Discuss King Of The Cage, Ultimate Challenge UK, and HDNet Fights as well as general mixed martial arts discussion.

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Old 10-25-2008, 07:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GMW View Post
Ok, this is just ridiculous. You can't compare time limits and rounds to what he is proposing. And the way you're defending it is, I imagine, a joke to try and make him look stupid?
Yes, I am being somewhat facetious, you got me- although I do have a point in there somewhere. Any restrictions on the fight at all are concessions, and there are a bunch already. It is a sport with a specific set of rules, not a streetfight, and as such, there is nothing in my opinion about standups that makes the sport less "fair and legitimate" than round limits- if anything its simply a matter of degree. It's just the nature of current incarnation of the sport.
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Old 10-25-2008, 09:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Standup's are part of the spart and are required. Hell at this point in my crazy hardcore fanhood, I can watch lay and pray and not get bored. However, if your talking about the sport overall, Hex is comletely right. If you say 1 aspect shouldn't be there because it aids a certain fighter, then no aspect should.

Kicks to the head of a grounded opponent, knees to the head of a downed opponent, no hits the to back of the head or spine and others all favour certain styles and without them they take away from the "sport".

Rounds and time limits do take away from "the sport", because in essecence they are like a standup and have saved many fighters in the past. A good example is when Tito had Rashad in that guilotine and the round ended, 10 more seconds and the fight would have ended.

If your there should be no more standups just because it takes away from the sport, then yes the "sport" might aswell go back to being a glorified streetfight with no eye gouging, ball kicking, fishhooking and biting (those are the only moves with absolutely no skill required).

Actually if we really want to go into the purity of the sport, the cage is also an unfair tool that gives an advantage to certain types of fighters. So they should fight in a giant feild (like a football feild except wider), so theres no structural advantages and everythings completely fair.

I'm sorry but your idea sucks and no one wants to see Royce vs. Shamrock 3.
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Old 10-25-2008, 09:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HexRei View Post
It rewards the fighter with the lesser gastank, as I already said. So you think giving the fighters a little rest period to recover is more important than keeping the fight a fair and legitimate competition? As a guy whose biggest strength is his cardio, I am offended sir. You are trying to take my best weapon away.

I don't think standups make the fight unfair- each fighter knows that a standup is a possibility coming into the fight, and that they need to keep their groundgame active to avoid that. If that discriminates against a fighter with a slow, boring groundgame, I don't see how that's any worse than a special rule forcing rest periods which definitely is more helpful to the fighter with poorer cardio.
Somewhat facetious? By that do you mean you are completely joking? If not I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

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Originally Posted by GKY View Post
Standup's are part of the spart and are required. Hell at this point in my crazy hardcore fanhood, I can watch lay and pray and not get bored. However, if your talking about the sport overall, Hex is comletely right. If you say 1 aspect shouldn't be there because it aids a certain fighter, then no aspect should.

Kicks to the head of a grounded opponent, knees to the head of a downed opponent, no hits the to back of the head or spine and others all favour certain styles and without them they take away from the "sport".

Rounds and time limits do take away from "the sport", because in essecence they are like a standup and have saved many fighters in the past. A good example is when Tito had Rashad in that guilotine and the round ended, 10 more seconds and the fight would have ended.

If your there should be no more standups just because it takes away from the sport, then yes the "sport" might aswell go back to being a glorified streetfight with no eye gouging, ball kicking, fishhooking and biting (those are the only moves with absolutely no skill required).

Actually if we really want to go into the purity of the sport, the cage is also an unfair tool that gives an advantage to certain types of fighters. So they should fight in a giant feild (like a football feild except wider), so theres no structural advantages and everythings completely fair.

I'm sorry but your idea sucks and no one wants to see Royce vs. Shamrock 3.
What? One aspect? I'm not even sure you know what I mean by standups, but you seem to, so I'll just overlook that.

Purity as a sport does not mean I want it to be anyhting like a streetfight, that a retarded conclusion to draw from what I said.

As a sport MMA is an athletic competition between two individuals. Standups interfere with the fight and give an unfair advantage to the fighter who is more proficeent in striking.

Rules that govern a fighters safety have no bearing, standups aren't there to keep fighters safe. Again, retarded.

The cage is not perfect, I agree. When a practitcal solution to the problems a cage presents shows up, I'll be all for it.

Nobody wants to see Royce-Shamrock three? Fantastic. But this is, I shall state this once again for the slower members on here, not a thread about what it is the fans want, it's about whats is right for this sport, as a sport.
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Old 10-25-2008, 10:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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My two cents might not be worth it but in my opinion, there standing fighters up gives the benefit to the stand-up fighter. MMA is so much more than boxing, or muay thai, etc. and the wrestling, judo and bjj aspect should be acknowledged as legitimate points of the competition. Whenever the stand-up is boring and the crowd boos...the ref says nothing. Whenever the crowd boos the ground game, the ref stands it up. The is already enough speculation that the UFC gets what the UFC wants-high Q ratings for their marketed fighters rather than the guys with solid, grinding wins.
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:20 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I can't stand stand-ups, especially in Pride where the ref would hardly give dudes chances.

I'm in the Rogan camp. It's a 5 minute round, deal with it. If you get taken down, get back up or look for subs. Getting taken down is a part of the sport, and they should be given all the time down there. Of course, I'm in the minority here.
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:26 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Yeah I don't like standups but as long as staying in top position constitutes winning a round I think they're needed TBH.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:43 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNegation View Post
This isn't about what keeps the fans happy. As I said before this is a sport, not sports entertainment.
I'm really sorry for dredging up a semi-old thread, but i just read over some that i'd lost track of. And partially because everytime i read a post from yourself, it seems to be argumentative, and it really irks me.

What happens to a sport if the fans are unhappy? The fans find something else to do and the sport dies. The stand-up rule, while dubious, is a necessity to keep MMA in the ascendancy.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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People always complain about lay n' pray wins anyway, wouldn't not standing people up just exacerbate that?
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Lone Wolf View Post
I'm really sorry for dredging up a semi-old thread, but i just read over some that i'd lost track of. And partially because everytime i read a post from yourself, it seems to be argumentative, and it really irks me.
It's true. And he doesn't argue in a friendly or positive way, ever.
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Wolf View Post
I'm really sorry for dredging up a semi-old thread, but i just read over some that i'd lost track of. And partially because everytime i read a post from yourself, it seems to be argumentative, and it really irks me.

What happens to a sport if the fans are unhappy? The fans find something else to do and the sport dies. The stand-up rule, while dubious, is a necessity to keep MMA in the ascendancy.
Well, this is just a basic misunderstanding of what this thread was about, but don't worry, your not the only one who did that.
This is about what in principle is best for the sport, not what the fans want or what I expect or even want(well, ina perfect world I would want it, but thats not the point) to happen. I have clarified that numerous times in this thread.
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People always complain about lay n' pray wins anyway, wouldn't not standing people up just exacerbate that?
Yes.
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It's true. And he doesn't argue in a friendly or positive way, ever.
Thats not true you ******* cumbucket.
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