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Old 09-03-2009, 10:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Im too lazy to edit this right so Ill just toss my answers in in green.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
I think Fedor's history in MMA pretty clearly demonstrates how well his game translates.
Exactly, FADOR's skill has shown HE is dominant and able to adapt his style to MMA. And Karo Parisyan has also found some success along with some other fights but that says more about them than it dose there style of martial art.
His takedowns, which are a huge part of his game in judo and sambo, have been dominant against the non-wrestlers (a category Mir would fit into) that he's fought.
I dont think I said they are not effective...

His submissions, which were heavily judo centric (ude garami/kimura; juji gatame/armbar) during his Pride career had a very high success rate.

He submitted more than half his opponents.

Of course, Mir is better on the mat than Randleman, Coleman or Ogawa.
Again have they been so successful against BJJ fighters? what dose that have to do with if he "would" sub Mir?
That said, I don't think an MMA fight with Mir would ever hit the mat. I think Mir would end up staring at the lights, partly because his boxing hasn't been as devastating as Fedor's, and partly because I think it's been clearly demonstrated that a TKO is the best way to finish Mir.

I agree thats one of the most likely outcomes, on the feet or on the ground he would probably pound him out.


Really? You saw a guy with three world championships in a full contact sport get beat up by a cowboy?

Or did you see a McDojo blackbelt with a big mouth who told you he was dominant get stomped?

C'mon. We're talking about two real fighters. Not a bar fight between a guy who pretends to have a background and a guy who ropes cattle six days a week.


Although your comments have nothing to do with my point in referencing him Ill answer anyway.
Actually he was a friend of mine who competed in full contact Karate Competitions and won every event he entered except his first. Ive seen him compete and took a look at his trophy's, he started training at 4 and quit training at 18. I dont think Ive ever seen him start a fight he just wont back down.



You don't feel Fedor has world class jiu-jitsu?

Fine. Neither does Frank Mir.

After all, Mir has never won a Mundial title. He's never been on a podium at the world championships. That's the definition of a world class jiu-jitsu practioner.
I dont remember saying Mir has world class jiu-jitsu either I guess you'll have refresh my memory, my only point is that his submission defense along with other factors make a submission the least likely outcome.
I don't think Fedor's jitz is world class either. But he's never competed in jiu-jitsu and he's not a jiu-jitsu practitioner.

Not to mention there are a lot of sports jiu-jitsu guys that don't do well in MMA (see Marcelo Garcia).
I think I mentioned that
16 of his wins are by submission. Frank Mir doesn't tap people with omoplatas. I don't see your point.
My point is Fador's submissions are nothing special.
Are you saying that Fedor is using moves that aren't jiu-jitsu moves?
Im saying he's using the same moves everyone trians to defend and Mir being a jiu-jitsu practissioner would have a enhanced capability to defend them
Because that wrong. And Fedor's not a jiu-jitsu guy.

Clearly you missed my bit about the differentiation between the submission game and Jiu-Jitsu.

Clearly



If they fight MMA, Fedor will do exactly what Pe De Pano and Ian Freeman did to him. Punch him in the face until he's done. That fight isn't going to end with a submission, but not because Fedor can't submit Mir.
I dont disagree with that at all, I disagree with the idea that Fador in a fight Mir would submit him, not because he cant but because its the least likely outcome.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post
I dont disagree with that at all, I disagree with the idea that Fador in a fight Mir would submit him, not because he cant but because its the least likely outcome.
Yeah, the original post wasn't intended to answer this question. It was addressed at the question of whether Fedor could submit Mir. And I think it's clear that he could.

For me, it's not about what Fedor's best at. I think he's better at everything that Frank is (which was part of why I brought up why Fedor would win in a submission grappling match). It's about where Frank is worst, and I think history has shown that he loses as the result of strikes, not submissions.

So, that's my logic.

Like you said, I think we agree on the outcome.

You asked, who has Fedor submitted with a better jiu-jitsu game than Mir. My point was that jiu-jitsu isn't the defining standard when it comes to submissions in MMA.
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