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**Davisty69** · 09-02-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Villian

Are they still personal beliefs when he shows it off to the world on TV? By the way his personal beliefs represent Racism, violence and murder to certain people. Think about Bin Laden his "personal beliefs" are to kill as many Americans as possible. Is that ok too? I doubt it. I guess it all depends on who your hatred is directed at..

Is wearing a cross on a chain around your neck a symbol of your personal belief? Of course. Just because you are letting people know what your personal beliefs are, doesn't make them any less personal.

I didn't say his beliefs are ok. I never even implied that. I would say, however, that it is perfectly ok for him to believe whatever he wants. You can't force someone to believe what you want. Also, according to American laws (I know he is finnish or something like that) Freedom of speech allows him to say/believe whatever he wants, as long as it doesn't break any other laws. IMO, his tattoos represent an extension of his freedom of speech.

Like the Voltaire quote states, I don't have to like anything about what he believes/says, but I should, and will, defend his rights to believe/say it.

And please, never imply that I am a hypocrite again. If an american citizen held the same beliefs as Osama, yet never broke any laws in furtherance of those beliefs, then I absolutely think it is acceptable, according the bill of rights, for them to believe that way.

Comparing Hitler to Osama is a good analogy IMO (both want the death of a certain kind of people), and I would apply the same logic to both.

Godzuki · 09-02-2009, 01:27 PM

I agree with what Tito and Bas said on "Inside MMA". Regardless of the guys personal views now or in the past, it reinforces the negative misconceptions some have about MMA and is therefore bad for sport. He should either have the tattoos permanently removed/covered or else he shouldn't be allowed to fight.

Drogo · 09-02-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Villian

Are they still personal beliefs when he shows it off to the world on TV? By the way his personal beliefs represent Racism, violence and murder to certain people. Think about Bin Laden his "personal beliefs" are to kill as many Americans as possible. Is that ok too? I doubt it. I guess it all depends on who your hatred is directed at..

No, it depends on whether or not you act on it. Bin Laden murdered thousands of people. How many people has this guy murdered? Or advocated the murder of? Or done anything illegal? Nothing that we know of so saying he shouldn't be allowed to fight is idiotic censorship. He is allowed to be a dick and still be a professional athlete.

**Davisty69** · 09-02-2009, 01:39 PM

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me

Villian · 09-02-2009, 03:37 PM

To be clear I'm all for freedom of speech. My beef is with people trying to downplay the issue at hand. An MMA fighter with a swastika tattoo, white power on his back and "Born to hate" on his stomach....But Like you said I cant force anyone to believe what I believe and obviously those symbols mean different things to me and you.

legking · 09-02-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisty69

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me

That has nothing to do with the issue being discussed here.

**JuggNuttz** · 09-02-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic

I hardly see how a comparison can be made of gang members killing other gang members and the Nazi extermination of the jews. The Brown Pride gang isn't accused of killing people because they are white but cause they are gang members. If you want to compare a Brown Pride tatoo to a Bloods or Crips tatoo than be my guest but compared to clearly racist symblos and text I don't know how you can't see the difference.

either way you look at it, they are both evil discusting people, who kill people for their own empowerment. and what about the gangbangers who kill innocent kids sitting in their living room by stray bullets in a drive by? or who open fire on crowds of people because 1 rival gang member is in that group of 30 people..... i dont understand how you can hold one higher then they other. one kills to keep a status, the other kills to keep its hold of a drug corner... either way they are shit people.

and to say they arent racist either is pretty ill informed, as you have to be only mexican to get into the mexican mafia, and in the prisons, they are constantly at war with the black gangs. prison life can different animal i know, but race is a huge factor in gangs too.

so all im trying to say is, wether its a racist tattoo or gang tattoo i dont like it and yes i hold it against the fighter.

**Davisty69** · 09-02-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legking

That has nothing to do with the issue being discussed here.

Maybe the issue you were discussing, but not the issue I was discussing. I was discussing the necessity of defending someone else's right to free speech/expression, even though I don't like/despise the viewpoint.

That quote clearly has something to do with what I was talking about. Thanks for playing though.

legking · 09-02-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisty69

Maybe the issue you were discussing, but not the issue I was discussing. I was discussing the necessity of defending someone else's right to free speech/expression, even though I don't like/despise the viewpoint.

That quote clearly has something to do with what I was talking about. Thanks for playing though.

Well yeah, except that quote you used refers to taking objection to physical persecution/genocide, so it isn't really the same thing.