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Old 01-11-2007, 09:46 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I've been thinking about this and while boxing/kickboxing/Muay Thai is good for striking, I think people should learn at least basic blocking techniques from traditional martial arts (or at least train in boxing/kickboxing/muay thai MMA style with no gloves). The reason being this, in boxing/kickboxing/Muay Thai matches you have big gloves to help defend your head and you can use that to your advantage but when you get into a fight outside the ring (similar to a MMA situation) you won't have your gloves and it becomes harder to block shots to the head. A lot of the traditional martial arts work on blocks and are taught without gloves, so you could work on your defense that way. Keeping that in mind, Kyokushin Karate is very similar to Muay Thai (with the exception of no gloves and no fist strikes to the head, but there are kicks) and it is full-contact karate. They work on the clinch and use knees too, so you get everything you would get from Muay Thai but you don't have to worry about adapting from gloves.
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Old 01-11-2007, 11:32 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zapatista
JKD isn't just taking from multiple arts (that is what Mixed Martial Arts is), it was specific moves that Bruce Lee took from different martial arts and combined into his one system.

If you're looking for just fitness and self-defense, I'd suggest something along the lines of Hapkido and possibly Krav Maga, but definitely not boxing. Boxing (and to some extent Western Kickboxing) are horrible, in my opinion, for self-defense since for boxing you are taught to keep your hands up and protect your head with your hands (which have huge gloves on them), but when you're in the real world it is very hard to protect your head when you are bare-fisted. BJJ is always a good option too.

The reason I say that you should try out Hapkido is this: it covers strikes (both kicks and punches) and blocks. It also covers throws and some joint manipulations (especially small joint manipulations). So basically, if you have a good teacher, you can go to one place to train for your self-defense art which saves money. If you want to do boxing and BJJ (which doesn't make much sense to me if you don't want to compete in MMA) then you have to pay on average twice as much and travel to (possibly) two different places to train, which eats up time.

Okay first off Hapkido is totally gay and completely useless in real life situations and secondly if you're not intelligent enough to know that having solid boxing skills is one of the best forms of self defence and an absolute must in MMA then you should log off permanently and cram your keyboard up your ass. And you certainly shouldn't be giving anybody any advice.

Douche-bag.

Last edited by Mr. Bungle : 01-11-2007 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:46 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Okay first off Hapkido is totally gay and completely useless in real life situations and secondly if you're not intelligent enough to know that having solid boxing skills is one of the best forms of self defence and an absolute must in MMA then you should log off permanently and cram your keyboard up your ass. And you certainly shouldn't be giving anybody any advice.

Douche-bag.
When did I say boxing wasn't good for MMA? I simply said training in boxing and BJJ together isn't necessary if you're not planning on competing because there are arts out there that teach sufficient enough to be able to defend on the ground and stand up. Since we are talking strictly self-defense here, there are more options than just boxing that can work for a person. Arts such as Kenpo or Kyokushin Karate can work just as well as boxing or kickboxing in defending oneself. Remember, most people aren't trained in fighting so you don't have to be a black belt to successfully defend yourself (unlike in MMA).
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:12 PM   #44 (permalink)
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While box is great for defense it is limited mainly to punching defense while what Zap said was there are other arts, more tradational ones that not only have great punching defense but have more defensive options in regards to takes downs kicks and such.

At least that is what I got out of what he said. My opinion on that kinda matchs right upI've studided a little boxing plus a whole slew of tradational arts, all I really got out of boxing was a bit more emphisis on avoiding punches to the fac it was things I already knew. just stressed more, as a punch was all a boxer needs to worry about. I am am more along the lines that more can be learned from a solid Tradational MA when it comes to defense that would carry over more to MMA, Like Tang Soo Do, or ishnryu or some such hard form.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:48 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatista
When did I say boxing wasn't good for MMA? I simply said training in boxing and BJJ together isn't necessary if you're not planning on competing because there are arts out there that teach sufficient enough to be able to defend on the ground and stand up. Since we are talking strictly self-defense here, there are more options than just boxing that can work for a person. Arts such as Kenpo or Kyokushin Karate can work just as well as boxing or kickboxing in defending oneself. Remember, most people aren't trained in fighting so you don't have to be a black belt to successfully defend yourself (unlike in MMA).
I agree with Bungle. Hapkido, Tae-Kwon-do, Aikido and Judo are from the "-Do" (literal translation - form) school of eastern martial arts .. they are concerned more with the beauty of the form of martial arts and it's spiritual and personal development aspects. Read simply, they suck for real fighting. The "-Jutsu" (literal translation - technique) forms of martial arts are the actual warrior styles made for more practical application. So yes, Hapkido sucks. And don't even get me started on Krav Maga.. ugh, what a dumb choreographed "I do *this* reaaaal slow and you do this *hiiiyaaaa*!" piece of crap martial art. In the heat of a real fight you don't have time for most of that shit. And they advertise it as this super-dangerous form of dirty no-holds-barred fighting because of the eye-gouges and groin kicks they teach. Big f'in deal... anyone can do those given the opportunity, you don't need years of training to pull those dirty tactics off, just an opening.

Kickboxing and boxing may have a slight flaw of conditioning use of big gloves for blocking, but with minor adjustments in style to account for that, they are still the most powerful forms of striking in MMA today (along with muay thai). Almost all top mma fighters nowadays train in those styles to some degree. When has anyone seen a professional Hapkido mma fighter??
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko
I agree with Bungle. Hapkido, Tae-Kwon-do, Aikido and Judo are from the "-Do" (literal translation - form) school of eastern martial arts .. they are concerned more with the beauty of the form of martial arts and it's spiritual and personal development aspects. Read simply, they suck for real fighting. The "-Jutsu" (literal translation - technique) forms of martial arts are the actual warrior styles made for more practical application. So yes, Hapkido sucks. And don't even get me started on Krav Maga.. ugh, what a dumb choreographed "I do *this* reaaaal slow and you do this *hiiiyaaaa*!" piece of crap martial art. In the heat of a real fight you don't have time for most of that shit. And they advertise it as this super-dangerous form of dirty no-holds-barred fighting because of the eye-gouges and groin kicks they teach. Big f'in deal... anyone can do those given the opportunity, you don't need years of training to pull those dirty tactics off, just an opening.

Kickboxing and boxing may have a slight flaw of conditioning use of big gloves for blocking, but with minor adjustments in style to account for that, they are still the most powerful forms of striking in MMA today (along with muay thai). Almost all top mma fighters nowadays train in those styles to some degree. When has anyone seen a professional Hapkido mma fighter??
you are a fool to think judo is in the same class as aikido, or hapkido.
i have done aikido (yoshinkai) and have sparred with my friend that does hapkido so i can say they are diffrent from judo in many ways.. what have you studied to make you say any of these styles are not up to par for a fight? in a fight i feel comforable using judo. i belive most guys on this list feel the same as me...

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i also belive dave camarillo, ufc coach from aka. would agree with me, as judo being a very good part of fighting...
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:37 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddellianenko
I agree with Bungle. Hapkido, Tae-Kwon-do, Aikido and Judo are from the "-Do" (literal translation - form) school of eastern martial arts .. they are concerned more with the beauty of the form of martial arts and it's spiritual and personal development aspects. Read simply, they suck for real fighting. The "-Jutsu" (literal translation - technique) forms of martial arts are the actual warrior styles made for more practical application. So yes, Hapkido sucks. And don't even get me started on Krav Maga.. ugh, what a dumb choreographed "I do *this* reaaaal slow and you do this *hiiiyaaaa*!" piece of crap martial art. In the heat of a real fight you don't have time for most of that shit. And they advertise it as this super-dangerous form of dirty no-holds-barred fighting because of the eye-gouges and groin kicks they teach. Big f'in deal... anyone can do those given the opportunity, you don't need years of training to pull those dirty tactics off, just an opening.

Kickboxing and boxing may have a slight flaw of conditioning use of big gloves for blocking, but with minor adjustments in style to account for that, they are still the most powerful forms of striking in MMA today (along with muay thai). Almost all top mma fighters nowadays train in those styles to some degree. When has anyone seen a professional Hapkido mma fighter??
There's another thread that is talking about this type of thing. You're equating MMA with the real world, which is completely false. MMA teaches you to fight against 1 enemy and 1 enemy only. Some of the traditional arts teach how to deal with more than 1 (you may not destroy all of them, but you'd get farther than with MMA). The chances are too, that in a self-defense situation (which this thread is all about) there is a chance that the attacker will have a weapon. Boxing or Muay Thai isn't going to help you and will get you in trouble. The traditional arts (such as Hapkido, even though it's more modern than others) teach how to disarm the attacker and then take down the person.

Also, you won't see a Hapkido person do MMA for a couple reasons. 1.) Most traditional arts stress that the student isn't supposed to make money off of their training (with the exception of teaching) 2.) the person most likely to take Hapkido isn't the type of person that would want to get into MMA, if they wanted to they would do something else 3.) If you've seen anything other than UFC you'd realize that there are tons of traditional martial arts that are used in MMA. There are a lot of people who started (or still train) in Karate, TKD, Judo and others who do really well. Just look at K1 and you'll see traditional arts aren't bad. 4.) MMA has rules that restrict certain things whereas the self-defense arts have no rules. In real life, there are no rules. Sure you say that you can just "learn" or do the stuff in the heat of the moment when emotions kick in, but if you train heavily with the MMA rules you'll naturally revert to what you have trained in. That's what Krav Maga does. They teach a strike and repeat it until it is natural as a reflex, so when you need to fight you'll naturally know what to do.

Traditional arts aren't bad, and a lot of them are better at self-defense than the main arts of the UFC.
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Old 02-05-2007, 07:44 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Why does everyone think boxing is so bad for self defense? I everyone says this stuff about how you can't block in a street fight like you do in boxing because of the big gloves (yet people except Muay Thai and kickboxing even though they almost always use gloves).

People forget one major thing about boxing, you learn how to strike too. When does blocking really become a big factor in a street fight? When you get attacked on the street you can either run, or hit back, blocks are not a big factor in a street fight because it is just too quick, but you can slip a punch and counter (which boxing focuses a lot on). In boxing you focus a lot on fast and powerful combinations and that can be lethal on the street. I'm telling you right now if a skilled boxer is attacked on the street he will unleash such a fast and powerful combination and drop the guy before he even knows what hit him.

And what is this shit about disarming people with knives and all that? If your getting attacked by a knife, get out of there as fast as possible, and if you can't then kick him in the nuts and try and parry the attack with one hand and use the other to start the combination. Who is really going to stand there and try and disarm the guy? This isn't Hollywood. If you are really afraid about knives and guns, carry your own.

This is a great article about a boxer who went to a traditional martial art class for self defense, and I think this would be a good read for some of you guys looking for self defense.
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:48 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Why does everyone think boxing is so bad for self defense? I everyone says this stuff about how you can't block in a street fight like you do in boxing because of the big gloves (yet people except Muay Thai and kickboxing even though they almost always use gloves).

People forget one major thing about boxing, you learn how to strike too. When does blocking really become a big factor in a street fight? When you get attacked on the street you can either run, or hit back, blocks are not a big factor in a street fight because it is just too quick, but you can slip a punch and counter (which boxing focuses a lot on). In boxing you focus a lot on fast and powerful combinations and that can be lethal on the street. I'm telling you right now if a skilled boxer is attacked on the street he will unleash such a fast and powerful combination and drop the guy before he even knows what hit him.

And what is this shit about disarming people with knives and all that? If your getting attacked by a knife, get out of there as fast as possible, and if you can't then kick him in the nuts and try and parry the attack with one hand and use the other to start the combination. Who is really going to stand there and try and disarm the guy? This isn't Hollywood. If you are really afraid about knives and guns, carry your own.

This is a great article about a boxer who went to a traditional martial art class for self defense, and I think this would be a good read for some of you guys looking for self defense.
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Boxing may have fast and powerful combinations but so do other arts. Kenpo for example, has very fast combinations that are just as strong as a boxer's, but Kenpo also teaches more than just punches (with kicks and some styles teach some joint manipulations too). Some Kung Fu styles also focus on speed too. There isn't just one perfect art for self-defense, there are tons that are good for different people. I'd prefer to learn self-defense from an art that is a self-defense art and not a sport, but that's just me.
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Old 02-05-2007, 02:25 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zapatista
Boxing may have fast and powerful combinations but so do other arts. Kenpo for example, has very fast combinations that are just as strong as a boxer's, but Kenpo also teaches more than just punches (with kicks and some styles teach some joint manipulations too). Some Kung Fu styles also focus on speed too. There isn't just one perfect art for self-defense, there are tons that are good for different people. I'd prefer to learn self-defense from an art that is a self-defense art and not a sport, but that's just me.
True.. and another thing no one seems to have mentioned is the individual doing the art from or style or whatever. What works for one person might not work for another . When I worked as a bouncer there was nothing in MMA that would have really helped me in some of the situations. AS a bouncer you were not allowed to throw a punch until one was thrown at you, though it was mazing how hard you could bring someone down with out throwing a puch, and most of what I used I learned from tradational martial arts. like Judo, Karate, Tang soo do, Ninjitsu Jujitsu and others. GRanted there were a few take downs I did that were just as home in an MMA ring as they are in tradational MA there was no ground and pound. It usually ended up in a controling joint lock or submission, again acceptable in MMA but learned in a tradational sense. SO yea SOme MMA is applicable in real life. But the tradational art fors have been around for decades and centuries for a simple reason. They still have applications in the real world. Plus MMA is taken from tradational MA its not a whole seperate thing. With out Tradational MA there would be NO MMA. MMA is just a sport application of what has been learned for hundreds of years in tradational styles.
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