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General MMA Discussion Discuss King Of The Cage, Ultimate Challenge UK, and HDNet Fights as well as general mixed martial arts discussion.

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Old 02-05-2008, 04:45 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
You sound like someone who's never been in a real fight. YES, instinct is usually better in a real fight than stiff training hitting pads or choreographed routines with unresisting partners, or worst of all, choreographed katas with no one even responding, and techniques that are unrealistic and suicidal to begin with (like Karate/TKD's "blocking" of kicks with an extended arm or the stupid stance of keeping your hands at your side with your knees bent, Krav Maga's ludicrous knife "snatching" etc). Such "training" can be worse than none when it comes to a real fight, because it falls apart the second you realize your opponent is not going to stand there while you dandily walk around him and do your pretty aikido flip, he's gonna sock you right in the face. I've seen some such black belts get beaten pretty badly your average high school thug. Some MAs like Muay Thai/Boxing/KB/BJJ are somewhat useful even if you haven't sparred, because they give you stronger striking and conditioning, but most traditional MAs don't even give you that much. You should listen the the Shotokan BB when he confesses that. But IMO if a TMA guy hasn't sparred or tested his MA skills out against someone actually fighting him back, the "thugs" you condescend on will probably whup him 9 times out of 10. In general, the thug types tend to bigger, stronger and meaner than your average guy .. your TKD hop kick is usually quite useless against their actual fighting experience and instinct, and usually brute strength. Real life isn't like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Bolarbag has made some very legit points and he seems to know what he's talking about, through actual experience I would guess. If you don't believe me, sock one of your worthless Bridgeport thugs next time he's acting tough, and let us all know how it went.

Not at one point did I mention TKD because I know that it isnt useless in a real fight, nor did I mention Aikido? But w/e all you guys are right, all thugs can beat someone who is trained how to fight because this is what they do, there bigger and stronger and meaner. I am wrong, a thug can beat a boxer, forgive me for even bothering posting that, I should know better. I think i'll just join a gang and use that as my background in MMA competitions and i'll beat everyone. Cuz I mean being mean, strong and bigger will destroy everyone, just like brock lesnar beat frank mir in less than 2 minutes. Forgive me, thugs win.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:47 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Look into CKs excutive pfs pretty dope haha
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:20 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DSGhST07 View Post
Not at one point did I mention TKD because I know that it isnt useless in a real fight, nor did I mention Aikido? But w/e all you guys are right, all thugs can beat someone who is trained how to fight because this is what they do, there bigger and stronger and meaner. I am wrong, a thug can beat a boxer, forgive me for even bothering posting that, I should know better. I think i'll just join a gang and use that as my background in MMA competitions and i'll beat everyone. Cuz I mean being mean, strong and bigger will destroy everyone, just like brock lesnar beat frank mir in less than 2 minutes. Forgive me, thugs win.
I'm amused that you used Frank Mir as an example .. the whole scenario I'm talking about is a guy who's trained a martial art (possibly an ineffective one) without any real fighting or sparring going up against a thug who has. Frank Mir does not even compare to a guy like that ... he happens to fight for a living and spars/goes all out every week. A seasoned MMA guy like that would obviously tear apart your average thug in a one on one. Although a sub specialist like him that likes to go to the ground would still be more vulnerable on the streets compared to a good striker, if the thug had buddies around.

But when did I say that an actual well trained mma/boxing/kickboxing/MT fighter with real sparring or fighting experience of a fluid fight situation wouldn't do well against a thug? I agree that guys like that would usually maul an untrained and unexperienced opponent, strength advantage or not. But the debate wasn't about a guy like that, or Frank mir. You were defending a statement that any guy trained in martial arts, no matter what martial art, would beat down the thugs because they don't even know how to throw a punch, and training > strength. I'm saying not all training > strength.. some martial arts just suck for real fighting, period, you admitted as much in your post. They're better in movies. And training without sparring or matchups of any kind will fall apart under pressure or the first time a guy gets hit.

Case in point, I remember my first sparring session very well.. I'd been working on technique for 7 months and hit the pads harder than any guy in the place (partially because I was one of the bigger guys there) and looked the smoothest doing it. I had worked all these elaborate parries and blocks and cool looking responses to any strike my opponent might throw at me, and they worked like clockwork when I knew they were coming. Then I got my first spar, and went up against a 3-0 mma fighter.. all my pad work fell apart, I got mauled. Even with my higher reach, strength and probably cleaner looking technique, the guy kept coming and I couldn't think .. the responses I'd been training against an unmoving pad or a complying opponent were getting me socked in the face here. Hard. A while after that first spar, I switched to an actual MMA/KB camp that spars as a regular part of their training.. among all the training I did, I happened to spar again with that first guy and took him apart, utilizing my strength and reach effectively now that I had actual seasoned fighting responses. The moral of my long story is: the thugs already have that seasoning .. you're not gonna beat em on technique without practising it in a semi-real situation.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:55 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Absolutely, but I think you misunderstood what I said in the first post. Of course, I agree if you never sparred and you go up against someone who has fought u might get that behind whooped cuz u might buckle under pressure or forget all you learned. Also im not saying every martial art, the main one I pointed out (not nessicarily a martial art) is boxing. I still believe taking atleast 6 months of good boxing will be effective against someone who sticks to there wild throws, unless the thug knows some boxing thats a different story. TKD is good and all, but in a real fight u aint gonna be doing no spinning kicks. Same as Aikido, you have to realllyy good for it to work on the street. But striking arts such as boxing and muay thai, if trained correctly and put in some sparring time, could be very effective against someone on the street. I have similar situations such as urs, but in BJJ. I knew alot of sweeps, submissions, and counters before sparring, and when I first sparred, I wasnt able to excute anything kept getting tied up and armbarred. Anyways the point of it all was if trained awhile and you actually know how to correctly strike, rather than someone who just throws punches, I think you'll have a greater chance of winning. Not an arguement, just my honest opinion.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:07 PM   #85 (permalink)
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just toughen yourself up, run, do push ups, sit ups, do neck exercises, hit a punching bag. SPAR! I would suggest boxing than learn a martial arts that would help you defend yourself in a real fight , I guess Brazilian Jujitsu would be best, it was proven to the world how effective it can be. Little guy beating the big guy.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:06 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Yeah, the Gracies promote BJJ as a self-defense system. They have the various replays of early UFC and PRIDE to prove it. Not to mention the Gracie challenge!
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:31 AM   #87 (permalink)
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i got to disagree here guys. BJJ although a great style would not be a great self defense style. There are underhanded tactics that could be used against bjj such as biting, or eye-gauging or stabbing. Also if you got more than one guy after you and all you got is BJJ your a pretty much screwed.

Krav Maga is the way to go imo.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:44 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Krav Maga is a good martial art but I'm not totally sure it's the best of the martial arts. One you just don't see it that often in MMA. Second, this is me beating a Krav Maga guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsam5C5vwQo
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:53 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantowrestler View Post
Krav Maga is a good martial art but I'm not totally sure it's the best of the martial arts. One you just don't see it that often in MMA. Second, this is me beating a Krav Maga guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsam5C5vwQo
I am talking just for street self defense. A trained MMA fighter will beat a krav guy but when you are on the street fighting in bar fights or against thugs then you need to learn the no hold bars type of fighting that krav teaches.


edit: that guy you fought must of been real green or had a very bad teacher if he did train in krav.i mean he didnt spraw use head control go for sweeps and in pat two he didnt post on his arm and pull his leg back to get up like he should.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:12 AM   #90 (permalink)
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In addition to that he was out of shape. He stopped before he could master it cause his father thought he was being disrespectfull. But yeah I can see how Krav Maga could be used properly!
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