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Old 01-19-2010, 12:02 AM   #51 (permalink)
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It was afteri think . they had a big plan to keep Pride going. But after the yakuza ties it was game over.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:20 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Unhappy Yakuza

Yeah the Japanese general population just didn't want anything to do with it after that.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:50 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kantowrestler View Post
Yeah the Japanese general population just didn't want anything to do with it after that.


I hope no one has a problem with me reposting this!

It deserves it, such an amazing video and it captures Pride so well. Credit to whoever else posted this earlier so I could watch it. Make sure you watch it full screen and click the HQ button.

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Old 01-19-2010, 03:17 AM   #54 (permalink)
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It was afteri think . they had a big plan to keep Pride going. But after the yakuza ties it was game over.
It's way more complicated than that.

The Yakuza had been involved in Pride essentially since its inception, and everyone knew it (including the Fertittas, when they bought the company).

The entire history of the organization is incredibly shady. The "suicide" of Naoto Morishita and the rise of Sakakibara, who was a little too friendly with a lot of Yakuza leaders, and seems (to a lot of people, myself included) to have basically become a puppet for the Yakuza.

Really, though, the only thing that we don't know was the exact extent of Yakuza involvement in Pride, but it was always clear (whether from watching managers like Ken Imai take over the contracts of major fighters, or watching guys like Sakakibara set up control of the organization) that the Yakuza had some hand in dealing with the behind-the-scenes stuff in Pride.

As far as why it wasn't carried on by the Fertittas, there are a few reasons that are (simply) better than the observation that there was mob involvement (I mean, the Fertitta family has a history, too, though that tends to be blown out of proportion a little bit). Firstly, taking in the entirety of the Pride roster would have been impossible for the UFC, as Pride was losing tons of money (indicated by the fact that the UFC bought the organization for a reported $70 million, which is basically pocket change). Operating costs were not worth potential benefits.

Secondly, there were a number of lawsuits filed about how the UFC would operate Pride should it keep the organization running. Sakakibara filed one of these lawsuits, though (from what I understand) there are many, filed by a handful of parties.

That said, it was an organization that put on many of the best shows MMA has seen so far, and it has a lot to teach western fans.

The institution of the yellow card is one thing that could be huge in western MMA that we don't seem to talk about very much. And then there are the fights themselves, and I could ramble on for days about them, but I'll just say that there's nothing better than a great war with a story behind it, and Pride made those happen.


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Yeah the Japanese general population just didn't want anything to do with it after that.
This is just wrong.

The Japanese know how many of their business are built into syndicates that deal with organized crime. The way that Japanese syndicates operate is totally different from the way American gangs do, much more like the business-based gangs of the 1920s.

They deal with illegal enterprises, but many of the syndicates are respected by the Japanese.

Moreover, it's hard to say that the Japanese "general population" didn't know about the Yakuza influence before. The Yakuza have a long history in professional wrestling in Japan, and the connection between Japanese professional wrestling and MMA is pretty fuzzy from a fans standpoint.

The notion that Pride had a negative public image in Japan is kind of ridiculous. They weren't that popular because they weren't putting on huge shows, but they had always known about the operational stuff in the same way they know about the Yakuza's involvement in local liquor stores.

Towards the end of Pride, they were not drawing the same kinds of crowds they should have been, and were paying their fighters larger amounts of money than they could reasonably afford, so they were headed towards bankruptcy. It wasn't that they had an illegal business, it's that they didn't maintain the quality of the product and kept the fighters salaries pretty damn high.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:17 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Fascinating synopses of the history of gang involvement with Pride. It is a story of a company paying out more moeny than they were bringing in. It was probably a way to "clean" some money for them as well.


I would LOVE to see the yellow card in the UFC.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:24 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I was one of those unfortunate fans who REALLY started watching Pride FC right at the end. I remember the first time I heard of it my bro handed me a DVD and it was killer. Right when I started getting into itand searching on the internet it was over. No joke when I first heard of Pride i was probobly purchased within 4 months. I was just to busy watching Ken Shamrock bitch at Tito Ortiz to notice....

So today I had the day off work and I thought I would really look into it. I always watched videos here and there on the internet but never did I look into it as far at this Doc did.

http://mixedmartialartvideos.com/pri...mentary-video/

I watched the whole thing today and im pissed I missed out on Pride.

One question though why did they sell Pride to Zuffa? Were the owners of Pride greedy and wanted money? Financial issues?

Is it true that the owner was found dead hanging in a hotel room?
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:13 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFCFAN18 View Post
I was one of those unfortunate fans who REALLY started watching Pride FC right at the end. I remember the first time I heard of it my bro handed me a DVD and it was killer. Right when I started getting into itand searching on the internet it was over. No joke when I first heard of Pride i was probobly purchased within 4 months. I was just to busy watching Ken Shamrock bitch at Tito Ortiz to notice....

So today I had the day off work and I thought I would really look into it. I always watched videos here and there on the internet but never did I look into it as far at this Doc did.

http://mixedmartialartvideos.com/pri...mentary-video/

I watched the whole thing today and im pissed I missed out on Pride.

One question though why did they sell Pride to Zuffa? Were the owners of Pride greedy and wanted money? Financial issues?

Is it true that the owner was found dead hanging in a hotel room?
I feel your pain dude! I started getting into Pride right around the time Cro Cop won the 2006 Grand Prix!


Quote:
One question though why did they sell Pride to Zuffa? Were the owners of Pride greedy and wanted money? Financial issues?
I guess they thought Zuffa would have been able to keep it alive. We all know how that one turned out! Speaking of which, I remember there was somebody else that wanted to purchase PRIDE! I forget his name but I do remember Sakabara wanted nothing to do with him!
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:35 PM   #58 (permalink)
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One question though why did they sell Pride to Zuffa? Were the owners of Pride greedy and wanted money? Financial issues?
The incredibly low buyout price suggests financial issues, as do the problems with paying fighter contracts.

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Is it true that the owner was found dead hanging in a hotel room?
Naoto Morishita, who was the President of Pride at the time, died in February of 2003, when he was found hanged in his hotel room.

The death is generally considered a suicide, but the circumstances are suspicious.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:13 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnar426 View Post
I feel your pain dude! I started getting into Pride right around the time Cro Cop won the 2006 Grand Prix!
Yeah it's to bad but back at that time I wasn't HUGE into MMA like I am now and I was quiet happy with TUF and Matt Hughes, Tim Sylvia and Chuck Liddell etc. I mean how the hell would I even know? I had never seen anything on TV about Pride and that was back when I first got the internet.

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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
It's way more complicated than that.

The Yakuza had been involved in Pride essentially since its inception, and everyone knew it (including the Fertittas, when they bought the company).

The entire history of the organization is incredibly shady. The "suicide" of Naoto Morishita and the rise of Sakakibara, who was a little too friendly with a lot of Yakuza leaders, and seems (to a lot of people, myself included) to have basically become a puppet for the Yakuza.

Really, though, the only thing that we don't know was the exact extent of Yakuza involvement in Pride, but it was always clear (whether from watching managers like Ken Imai take over the contracts of major fighters, or watching guys like Sakakibara set up control of the organization) that the Yakuza had some hand in dealing with the behind-the-scenes stuff in Pride.

As far as why it wasn't carried on by the Fertittas, there are a few reasons that are (simply) better than the observation that there was mob involvement (I mean, the Fertitta family has a history, too, though that tends to be blown out of proportion a little bit). Firstly, taking in the entirety of the Pride roster would have been impossible for the UFC, as Pride was losing tons of money (indicated by the fact that the UFC bought the organization for a reported $70 million, which is basically pocket change). Operating costs were not worth potential benefits.

Secondly, there were a number of lawsuits filed about how the UFC would operate Pride should it keep the organization running. Sakakibara filed one of these lawsuits, though (from what I understand) there are many, filed by a handful of parties.

That said, it was an organization that put on many of the best shows MMA has seen so far, and it has a lot to teach western fans.

The institution of the yellow card is one thing that could be huge in western MMA that we don't seem to talk about very much. And then there are the fights themselves, and I could ramble on for days about them, but I'll just say that there's nothing better than a great war with a story behind it, and Pride made those happen.




This is just wrong.

The Japanese know how many of their business are built into syndicates that deal with organized crime. The way that Japanese syndicates operate is totally different from the way American gangs do, much more like the business-based gangs of the 1920s.

They deal with illegal enterprises, but many of the syndicates are respected by the Japanese.

Moreover, it's hard to say that the Japanese "general population" didn't know about the Yakuza influence before. The Yakuza have a long history in professional wrestling in Japan, and the connection between Japanese professional wrestling and MMA is pretty fuzzy from a fans standpoint.

The notion that Pride had a negative public image in Japan is kind of ridiculous. They weren't that popular because they weren't putting on huge shows, but they had always known about the operational stuff in the same way they know about the Yakuza's involvement in local liquor stores.

Towards the end of Pride, they were not drawing the same kinds of crowds they should have been, and were paying their fighters larger amounts of money than they could reasonably afford, so they were headed towards bankruptcy. It wasn't that they had an illegal business, it's that they didn't maintain the quality of the product and kept the fighters salaries pretty damn high.
Good post.

It's just to bad I wonder what the MMA world would be like if Pride was still around. I thought I remembered someone telling me that the owners death was somehow involved with Yakuza and it was actually murder, but hey how the hell would any of us ever know.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:36 PM   #60 (permalink)
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It's just to bad I wonder what the MMA world would be like if Pride was still around. I thought I remembered someone telling me that the owners death was somehow involved with Yakuza and it was actually murder, but hey how the hell would any of us ever know.
Again, I said this in an above post, he was the President of Pride, not the owner. Naoto Morishita had a role similar to that of Dana White (though I think Dana does more behind the scenes than Morishita did, because he's a major stockholder in the company).

The circumstances of his death are suspicious, but suicide is what's on the record.

There's speculation that Morishita was killed because the Yakuza wanted to replace him with someone more friendly to their involvement (i.e. Sakakibara), and Sakakibara certainly was friendly to the Yakuza, but just because it worked out well for the Yakuza doesn't necessarily mean they killed the guy.
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