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FredFish1 02-05-2010 10:51 AM

Aikido uses in MMA
 
I've recently been talking to some friends. Insert obligatory omg not another [Martial art x vs MMA] Yes it is, fudge off.

Any martial art can be tailored to have certain aspects of it incorporated in to MMA. Bearing in mind MMA is different from a street fight.

Of course, some martial arts are generally more offensive combat orientated and as such are more effective in a real life combat situation, be it MMA or a street fight. Immediate examples would be, boxing, muay thai or even wrestling. (90% of street fights end up on the floor, I pulled that figure out of my ass but it's probably fairly accurate to be honest)

Other examples of martial arts, which can have principles and techniques taken from them and put to real use could be: TKD, Karate and all variations, Sumo (Hi Machida) etc.

However the fact is it's generally accepted and even proven to an extent that some martial arts and disciplines are more practical and effective. I'd be quite happy to bet my money on a world class Muay-Thai striker taking down a world class TKD practioneer in a stand up battle; with relative ease.

However in MMA, small joint locks and other manoeuvres are banned, and rightly so. The reasons are painfully obvious to anyone. There's no denying that in a sreet fight, or a fight to the death situation, that throat squeezing (ripping the windpipe), biting, eye gouging and hits to the groin are all effective and tried and tested methods. Of course the person with more skill will usually win even if these tactics are open to both parties involved. Think of Demian Maia using eye gouges to set up transitions. Yeah, not pleasant.

I personally like the idea and some of the techniques in Aikido are definitely applicable to MMA, but I feel the majority wouldn't actually be useful. The one area I'm grey about, is small joint manipulation. There is no denying that Aikido has fearsome joint locks and breaks. Which are banned in MMA, so we've never really seen them tested in a full combat situation.

Sure we've seen them used on the street, to devastating effect. But would a Prime Mike Tyson have any trouble dispatching a foe on the street? Same with Royce Gracie, Fedor or Mirko. The answer is no. Any master of a respected discipline should annihilate amateur competition, and rightly so.

But I have difficulty believing that the worlds-best Aikido Master would stop a takedown from a Brock Lesnar or reverse a knee from Overeem. Sure the idea is there, and science even supports the principle to a lesser extent. Using the enemies strength and movement against him.

This is where me and my friends argue, I personally feel they have been duped by the Myths of Aikido, there is very little evidence of Aikido being used in grappling competitions or in MMA bouts. But it's very easy to watch a few films, or read a few articles, or perhaps watch a few youtube videos, and easily create the misconception that Aikido is the most deadly martial art.

It's easy to find Aikido vs Aikido matches. But that is a bias, it's very easy to deflect techniques you know are coming and are familiar with. It doesn't create a real combat situation. I've watched the throws and counter-techniques, but I'm not impressed. I see a lot of flash movement and the punches they are deflecting and catching aren't exactly of proper boxing technique, nor are they being thrown with vicious intent.

On top of this in pure grappling competitions (so no small joint manipulation), some one please correct me if I'm wrong. But I've never seen, yet a lone heard of an Aikido master dominating any world-class competition. Surely if these reversals and techniques are so effective and applicable to a combat situation, some one would have used them. This evidence indicates to me that perhaps Aikido is not all it's cracked up to be.

Unfortunately I had no argument for the small joint manipulation, there is no denying the immediate impact and damage they would have upon a fighter, but due to all grappling competitions and MMA bouts banning, potentially Aikidos greatest asset it's hard to really see it tested over a period of time.

So guys, I'm posting here to see your thoughts. How effective would Aikido be in MMA and a street fight, bearing in mind the differences between the two?

As you can tell I'm not experienced in Aikido at all, so I'm open to hearing ideas and thoughts.

BobbyCooper 02-05-2010 11:19 AM

All I know about Aikido is the philosophy behind it. It says that you don't actually wanna hurt your opponent, it's more about to break his will to fight! You wanna push him into a situation where he is not willing to continue the fight. I heard that this is the main philosophy behind it.

But Aikido also has some very deadly moves who can seriously injure or kill your rival. And most of them are illegel in a combat sport, thats probably the reason why it isn't very common in MMA!

But the actual meaning behind it is, to beat your opponent mentally so that you break his will!

Thats what I heard about it!

Halfraq9 02-05-2010 11:43 AM

In my humble opinion, after taking Aikido off and on for 4 years way back when, I've come to the conclusion after training in MMA that it is an art based on theory that falls apart as a whole when it is applied in real life situations. I will add that that there are individual techniques that seem functional here and there. As a whole though the art doesn't seem to work against trained opponents.

This has just been my experience and I'll acknowledge that there are probably Aikido practitioners that do make this art functional.

khoveraki 02-05-2010 11:54 AM

Aikido, in my mind, is reserved mostly for middle-aged yuppies who think they can win a fight with mental energy.


I took a few months of classes at an Aikido dojo and the one very valuable thing I did learn was how to fall correctly to not get injured. Besides that... it was like a play-version of Judo.

ZXT 02-07-2010 09:13 AM

I thought Aikido is about channelling the opponents power to your advantage.

machidaisgod 02-07-2010 09:46 AM

If all Aikido was allowed in MMA there wouid be a new force on the block, but this would clearily diminish the attractiveness of the sport as Aikido masters would be owning MMA. That is why joint locks are outlawed they would do serious damage and we cant have that in mma.

jcal 02-07-2010 10:01 AM

You have to be a 'willing ' participant in aikido for it to work well. As for me, ive grappled with people who had aikido background (only a couple of times) that were defenseless on the ground and tried small joint manipulation and pressure point applications on me but none of it worked at all. When I watch it on you-tube, I see a guy letting his master move him around with no resistance plus I see areas where the student could do this or that to get away or out of the hold or even just smash him upside the head. Like someone said though, it would be a good place to learn breakfalls but then almost any style teaches that.

khoveraki 02-07-2010 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by machidaisgod (Post 1108348)
If all Aikido was allowed in MMA there wouid be a new force on the block, but this would clearily diminish the attractiveness of the sport as Aikido masters would be owning MMA. That is why joint locks are outlawed they would do serious damage and we cant have that in mma.

lolbro.



Quoted for craziness.



edit: Wrist-locks aren't small joint manipulation and I'm pretty sure they're legal in MMA, they're just super duper ineffective.

nathan.keith 02-09-2010 11:37 AM

Akido isn't some ancient mental martial art. It's a defence. Akido's philosophy is that you restore the harmony in your universe.... even if it involves breaking someone's wind pipe. The movements in akido could easily be applied to any combat situation. It's all about moving out of the line of danger and keeping ballance while throwing your opponent off balance. Akido could be used as part of a mma arsonal but akido alone has absolutely no offence. It's not about winning a fight, it's more about not losing. This is why akido is so dangerous. Every move is made to end the threat to yourself and often this comes through injury to your attacker. I love akido but you can't whoop someone's ass with it untill they swing at you. In mma you can't wait for that. I was in a "street" fight with a man much bigger than me and he made the mistake of reaching out and shifting his ballance, I put hip face down on the shop floor and sinched in the rear naked. Akido works just not on it's own.

Wrist locks are killer. Especially when someone's on your back. Just get their elbow trapped inside the fold of your arm and don't stop till their finger tips touch their elbow

Halfraq9 02-09-2010 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan.keith (Post 1109887)
Akido isn't some ancient mental martial art. It's a defence. Akido's philosophy is that you restore the harmony in your universe.... even if it involves breaking someone's wind pipe. The movements in akido could easily be applied to any combat situation. It's all about moving out of the line of danger and keeping ballance while throwing your opponent off balance. Akido could be used as part of a mma arsonal but akido alone has absolutely no offence. It's not about winning a fight, it's more about not losing. This is why akido is so dangerous. Every move is made to end the threat to yourself and often this comes through injury to your attacker. I love akido but you can't whoop someone's ass with it untill they swing at you. In mma you can't wait for that. I was in a "street" fight with a man much bigger than me and he made the mistake of reaching out and shifting his ballance, I put hip face down on the shop floor and sinched in the rear naked. Akido works just not on it's own.

Wrist locks are killer. Especially when someone's on your back. Just get their elbow trapped inside the fold of your arm and don't stop till their finger tips touch their elbow

Great post + repped. I agree that Aikido is effective against most bozo's on the street. I just don't see it effective against a Fitch, GSP, Florian, or someone with more than a years worth of training.


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