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Old 03-29-2010, 10:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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MMA is a sport not human cock-fighting . . . remember?

OK, I have to get this off my chest as a die hard fan off MMA. I have watched since UFC-1. In fact, I have seen every UFC event. I have seen every Pride event. And I have seen virtually every other event out there from Strikeforce, Affliction, K-1, Bodog Fights, IFL, etc, etc, etc. I go to all my local events and support my training partners. I have trained for over 7 years now and have even had a couple fights just to say I did it.

In doing so, I have seen the evolution of MMA from what early opponents called human cock-fighting to what we now know as MMA today. MMA today is a legitimate sport. It is not a bloodfest. It is a sport with skilled opponents and strategies. There are rules and judges. It is no longer the old, two men enter one man leave scenario. MMA has evolved into a mainstream spectator sport.

This is what bugs the crap out of me. For years MMA, mainly led by the UFC, has struggled to become legitimate in the eyes of the licensing committees and fans alike. The goal was to take away the perception that you had two knuckleheads in the cage trying to gouge each otherís eyes out and bleed all over each other. Thus, making it a sport like baseball or basketball or whatever. For the most part we have succeeded. Most educated fans understand the conditioning involved. They understand the training involved. They understand the strategy involved. For the most part, this forum (unlike others that shall remain nameless (Sherdog)), has a good deal of educated fans of the sport. So, when I see threads bashing fighters that didnít make an entertaining fight, it bugs the heck out of me. Just follow me here.

What is the goal of the fight? Is it to win . . . or is it to entertain? If it is to entertain, then why are we fighting to become a mainstream sport? Why have rules? Why not just become like professional wrestling and have scripted fights? They are in fact entertaining right? But if the goal is to win your fight, what in the world is wrong with a fighter employing strategy to win? I mean, that is the goal right? Letís take for example the GSP/Hardy fight. Why are people saying that GSP did not come to fight? I think he answered it himself . . . he came to win . . . period. Did he succeed? So what, it was a little boring. Is that really his problem? What about Jon Fitch? All his fights look the same. Is that his problem? Should he change the fighter he is to accommodate the fans? I mean, he is winning . . . so why change? Yes . . . he is boring to watch at times. But, who cares? Again I ask, is the goal to entertain or win?

I get so sick of hearing ďfansĒ talk about fighters not coming to fight (when they win). Or when someone says they have lost all respect for a fighter because they stayed away from another fighterís strength to actually win the fight. If we are indeed a real sport, then strategy is a key component of any good fighterís gameplan these days. Why should fighters feel like they need to apologize after a fight, because the fans didnít like it? How many times have we seen a Superbowl that was less than entertaining? It happens people. Get over it. Sometimes fights are boring. Sometimes a fighter is smart enough to realize they are stronger in an area than his opponent and they choose to stay away from their strengths. To me, that is a smart, professional fighter.

The bottom line is this. If you are truly an MMA fan, then you have to take the good with the bad. You also need to understand that fighters should only be concerned with one goal . . . winning. If organizations like the UFC were only interested in entertainment, then our sport would look very different today. We would probably have a roster full of guys like Tank Abbott that just stood in front of each other and wailed on each otherís face until one fell. But, MMA is a sport. There is skill, conditioning and yes strategy. If you are a true MMA fan you should realize this. If you donít like a fighter because of how they fight that is fine. But for heavenís sake, quit bashing an opponent for winning . . . even if it wasnít pleasing to you. Enjoy the good fights, and respect the fighters for doing what they do when itís a boring one.

Sorry I just had to get that off my chest. Respond as necessary!
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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well said
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You had me at Cock fighting...Wait...MMA isnt just about blood? Lol I feel ya man People will come around.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Exactly what I tried to say.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
What is the goal of the fight? Is it to win . . . or is it to entertain? If it is to entertain, then why are we fighting to become a mainstream sport? Why have rules? Why not just become like professional wrestling and have scripted fights? They are in fact entertaining right? But if the goal is to win your fight, what in the world is wrong with a fighter employing strategy to win? I mean, that is the goal right? Let’s take for example the GSP/Hardy fight. Why are people saying that GSP did not come to fight? I think he answered it himself . . . he came to win . . . period. Did he succeed? So what, it was a little boring. Is that really his problem? What about Jon Fitch? All his fights look the same. Is that his problem? Should he change the fighter he is to accommodate the fans? I mean, he is winning . . . so why change? Yes . . . he is boring to watch at times. But, who cares? Again I ask, is the goal to entertain or win?
Entertainment is DEFINATELY a huge factor in MMA. who gets a title shot, a guy who wins 7 fights by unanimous decision, or a guy who wins 4 fights by KO/TKO. it's going to go to the exciting fighter 9/10 times. back in the pride days exciting fighters were kept around whether they won or lost. putting a show on for the fans counts for alot; theres no way a boring sport could go mainstream.

the tank abbots of mma don't make it because they lack the skill, but look how big chuck liddell was. he was a pioneer of the sport, and all he was is basically a brawler with tdd. at the same time you had matt hughes who absolutely dominated his division, and was considered by many as the no1 p4p fighter, but he never became a household name because his fights wern't always exciting.

why did Brock Lesnar get a title fight after just 3 MMA fights? becaause he's a bigger draw than anyone else and the reason for that is because he's an entertainer.

in a perfect world all that would count is that you win. it doesn't work that way though, if every mma fight was boring noone would take interest.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Foose View Post
OK, I have to get this off my chest as a die hard fan off MMA. I have watched since UFC-1. In fact, I have seen every UFC event. I have seen every Pride event. And I have seen virtually every other event out there from Strikeforce, Affliction, K-1, Bodog Fights, IFL, etc, etc, etc. I go to all my local events and support my training partners. I have trained for over 7 years now and have even had a couple fights just to say I did it.

In doing so, I have seen the evolution of MMA from what early opponents called human cock-fighting to what we now know as MMA today. MMA today is a legitimate sport. It is not a bloodfest. It is a sport with skilled opponents and strategies. There are rules and judges. It is no longer the old, two men enter one man leave scenario. MMA has evolved into a mainstream spectator sport.

This is what bugs the crap out of me. For years MMA, mainly led by the UFC, has struggled to become legitimate in the eyes of the licensing committees and fans alike. The goal was to take away the perception that you had two knuckleheads in the cage trying to gouge each other’s eyes out and bleed all over each other. Thus, making it a sport like baseball or basketball or whatever. For the most part we have succeeded. Most educated fans understand the conditioning involved. They understand the training involved. They understand the strategy involved. For the most part, this forum (unlike others that shall remain nameless (Sherdog)), has a good deal of educated fans of the sport. So, when I see threads bashing fighters that didn’t make an entertaining fight, it bugs the heck out of me. Just follow me here.

What is the goal of the fight? Is it to win . . . or is it to entertain? If it is to entertain, then why are we fighting to become a mainstream sport? Why have rules? Why not just become like professional wrestling and have scripted fights? They are in fact entertaining right? But if the goal is to win your fight, what in the world is wrong with a fighter employing strategy to win? I mean, that is the goal right? Let’s take for example the GSP/Hardy fight. Why are people saying that GSP did not come to fight? I think he answered it himself . . . he came to win . . . period. Did he succeed? So what, it was a little boring. Is that really his problem? What about Jon Fitch? All his fights look the same. Is that his problem? Should he change the fighter he is to accommodate the fans? I mean, he is winning . . . so why change? Yes . . . he is boring to watch at times. But, who cares? Again I ask, is the goal to entertain or win?

I get so sick of hearing “fans” talk about fighters not coming to fight (when they win). Or when someone says they have lost all respect for a fighter because they stayed away from another fighter’s strength to actually win the fight. If we are indeed a real sport, then strategy is a key component of any good fighter’s gameplan these days. Why should fighters feel like they need to apologize after a fight, because the fans didn’t like it? How many times have we seen a Superbowl that was less than entertaining? It happens people. Get over it. Sometimes fights are boring. Sometimes a fighter is smart enough to realize they are stronger in an area than his opponent and they choose to stay away from their strengths. To me, that is a smart, professional fighter.

The bottom line is this. If you are truly an MMA fan, then you have to take the good with the bad. You also need to understand that fighters should only be concerned with one goal . . . winning. If organizations like the UFC were only interested in entertainment, then our sport would look very different today. We would probably have a roster full of guys like Tank Abbott that just stood in front of each other and wailed on each other’s face until one fell. But, MMA is a sport. There is skill, conditioning and yes strategy. If you are a true MMA fan you should realize this. If you don’t like a fighter because of how they fight that is fine. But for heaven’s sake, quit bashing an opponent for winning . . . even if it wasn’t pleasing to you. Enjoy the good fights, and respect the fighters for doing what they do when it’s a boring one.

Sorry I just had to get that off my chest. Respond as necessary!
I assume this is all about GSP. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote and even said in other threads that the win is all that matters in the end since this is after all a sport where you compete under rules to deterime a victor according to this ruleset. In this regard GSP is the perfect fighter.

In other regards, we as fans, who pay these fighters salaries have the right to be able to bring criticism when we see something that we don't like, find offencive or simply not entertaining. People watch sports for entertainment or atleast excitment. This holds true for everything, baseball, track and fields, skeeing, fotball etc... And the atheletes in these sports regularily face criticism when they fail to perform or play a boring defencive game to eek out a 1-0 win (for instance in soccer). Why should MMA be different? You will always have tactical players who might, or might not be, boring and you will have more exciting, unpredicable players, who strives to create offence, and go forward, rather then supress the opponents offence and shut him down while doing very little to end the fight decicevly.

What I'm saying is GSP is doing the right thing, and the smart thing. But that dosent change the fact that we have the right to be dissapointed and be allowed to voice these concerns to the public eye.

I'm not obligated to think that 25 minutes of safe boring grappling with very little offence is super fun to watch. Therefor I say what I think and if you GSP or anyone else has a problem with that, then its your problem, not mine.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by looney liam View Post
theres no way a boring sport could go mainstream.
Ever watch football? (soccer)

OP is right. The poster I quoted is talking more from a business standpoint, which is legit, but IMO:

sport > business

Kudos to the OP.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Woodenhead View Post
Ever watch football? (soccer)

OP is right. The poster I quoted is talking more from a business standpoint, which is legit, but IMO:

sport > business

Kudos to the OP.
Haha soccer is awesome! It's the worlds most popular sport for a reason!
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Im an American and I love me some Fn soccer cant wait for the World Cup!
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Inkdot View Post
Haha soccer is awesome! It's the worlds most popular sport for a reason!
lol Well, I agree with you, but most North Americans don't. And it illustrates a point - the folks more intimate with the sport tend to "get it" much more than casual fans/uninterested people.
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