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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-02-2010, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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MMA vs. JUDO chokes/armlocks

Hello there!

This is my first post

I've been an MMA fan for about 5 years and am usually getting into mma-is-not-a-sport discussions (guess which side).

This time I was in a discussion with a person that stated that there arent ANY NEW ARMLOCKS OR CHOKES outside of Judo, cause he STUDIED JUDO AND THERE ARE NO WAY TO GET OUT OF BOTH.

Then I started to offer to give him recorded footage of thousands of fights where the fighter got out of both (out of armlocks by spinning, out of chokes by a combination of rotation and pressure, ...)

Once he got this (offered) data, he continued to state that THERE ARENT ANY NEW ARMLOCKS OR CHOKES FROM JUDO until today in the MMA. I got pissed because I saw tens of them done both by BJJ or Sambo fighters and also GR Wrestlers.

So I ask you guys!

Can you help me and name new armlocks and choke-holds that have been developed outside of Judo (BJJ/Sambo/WHATEVER) so that I can print out a list of them and stick it up his ... ?


THANK YOU SO MUCH!
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-02-2010, 07:47 PM
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Thumbs up List:

Here it is:
1.Nami-juji-jime
2.Gyaku-juji-jime
3.Kata-juji-jime
4.Hadaka-jime
5.Okuri-eri-jime
6.Kata-ha-jime
7.Do-jime
8.Sode-guruma-jime
9.Kata-te-jime
10.Ryo-te-jime
11.Tsukkomi-jime
12.Sankaku-jime
13.Ude-garami
14.Ude-hishigi-juji-gatame
15.Ude-hishigi-ude-gatame
16.Ude-hishigi-hiza-gatame
17.Ude-hishigi-waki-gatame
18.Ude-hishigi-hara-gatame
19.Ashi-garami
20.Ude-hishigi-ashi-gatame
21.Ude-hishigi-te-gatame
22.Ude-hishigi-sankaku-gatame
23.Ashi-garami
24.Do-jime
25.Kani-basami
26.Kawazu-gake

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantowrestler View Post
Here it is:
1.Nami-juji-jime
2.Gyaku-juji-jime
3.Kata-juji-jime
4.Hadaka-jime
5.Okuri-eri-jime
6.Kata-ha-jime
7.Do-jime
8.Sode-guruma-jime
9.Kata-te-jime
10.Ryo-te-jime
11.Tsukkomi-jime
12.Sankaku-jime
13.Ude-garami
14.Ude-hishigi-juji-gatame
15.Ude-hishigi-ude-gatame
16.Ude-hishigi-hiza-gatame
17.Ude-hishigi-waki-gatame
18.Ude-hishigi-hara-gatame
19.Ashi-garami
20.Ude-hishigi-ashi-gatame
21.Ude-hishigi-te-gatame
22.Ude-hishigi-sankaku-gatame
23.Ashi-garami
24.Do-jime
25.Kani-basami
26.Kawazu-gake
Anyone ever seen any of these used inside the cage?
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domen Lo View Post
Hello there!

This is my first post

I've been an MMA fan for about 5 years and am usually getting into mma-is-not-a-sport discussions (guess which side).

This time I was in a discussion with a person that stated that there arent ANY NEW ARMLOCKS OR CHOKES outside of Judo, cause he STUDIED JUDO AND THERE ARE NO WAY TO GET OUT OF BOTH.

Then I started to offer to give him recorded footage of thousands of fights where the fighter got out of both (out of armlocks by spinning, out of chokes by a combination of rotation and pressure, ...)

Once he got this (offered) data, he continued to state that THERE ARENT ANY NEW ARMLOCKS OR CHOKES FROM JUDO until today in the MMA. I got pissed because I saw tens of them done both by BJJ or Sambo fighters and also GR Wrestlers.

So I ask you guys!

Can you help me and name new armlocks and choke-holds that have been developed outside of Judo (BJJ/Sambo/WHATEVER) so that I can print out a list of them and stick it up his ... ?


THANK YOU SO MUCH!
I train Judo too, and to my knowledge there are no chokes or armlocks that were invented outside of Judo. There were cases of BJJ guys thinking they invented omoplata or gogoplata but both of those existed in Judo, they just didn't know it. The thing is Judo has since 1993 restricted armlocks to the elbow joint and forbidden attacks on the shoulder or wrist, so some of the armlocks are no longer used. Which is silly since Ude Garami and Waki gatame attack both the shoulder and the elbow.

I think Iron Man could help us on this issue. Maybe the knows something about this.

PS: Kanto, that list is flawed. It has throws and holds in it besides submissions. And Lone Wolf, a lot of those have been used inside the cage.

"He who defeats himself is the mightiest warrior" - Confucius(I think)

Last edited by Freelancer; 07-03-2010 at 01:43 PM.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 01:54 PM
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Was he saying that you can't get out of chokes and armlocks that are properly applied because most escapes in MMA happen from improper technique. There is generally a point of no return when done right. Sambo's grappling is essentially Judo and wrestling I believe and BJJ is an offshoot of Judo basically just a different system with the emphasis on the ground game and not throws and trips. Greco doesn't have submissions.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Wolf View Post
Anyone ever seen any of these used inside the cage?
Yes, it's just Japanese names. Most of them have.

Hadaka jime - RNC, Guillotine.
Ude garami - Kimura
Sankaku jime - Triangle choke
etc etc etc

As for the question, most armlocks and chokes are in both BJJ and MMA, same things. The chokes that wouldn't are gi chokes and not in MMA for obvious reasons.

But there are newer submissions outside Judo like the gogoplata etc.

*Omaplata is in Judo despite what many think.

The answer to your question is the submissions that you can do without a gi on, are exactly the same pretty much.


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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoka View Post
Yes, it's just Japanese names. Most of them have.

Hadaka jime - RNC, Guillotine.
Ude garami - Kimura
Sankaku jime - Triangle choke
etc etc etc

As for the question, most armlocks and chokes are in both BJJ and MMA, same things. The chokes that wouldn't are gi chokes and not in MMA for obvious reasons.

But there are newer submissions outside Judo like the gogoplata etc.

*Omaplata is in Judo despite what many think.

The answer to your question is the submissions that you can do without a gi on, are exactly the same pretty much.
Gogoplata isn't new to judo. It's called Kagato jime.


"He who defeats himself is the mightiest warrior" - Confucius(I think)
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 06:40 PM
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Red face Gogoplata

Yeah that is used in BJJ not judo!

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantowrestler View Post
Yeah that is used in BJJ not judo!
Did you see the picture I posted?
Or was that a joke?

"He who defeats himself is the mightiest warrior" - Confucius(I think)
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-03-2010, 08:23 PM
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I'm guessing that's a Kagato jime?

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