Mixed Martial Arts Forum banner

How far we are away?

8K views 99 replies 25 participants last post by  UFC_OWNS 
#1 ·
..someday there might comes a day where we only see guys come from those barbaric MMA gyms. Guys who never became great at one traditional Martial Art and combined this art of fighting with another one and another one from time to time, to make the transition into the Sport of MMA. Outstanding Judokas or Wrestlers who after a couple of years of MMA training, switched over to the Sport of MMA.

This beautiful time we all can witness right now, will be gone and when a next generation of Bruce Buffer announces the fighters discipline.. we will only hear Mixed Martial Arts..

All the clash of styles will die and MMA will just become MMA for every fighter out there.. The great Karateka or the Japanese Judo Gold medalist can not dream about a MMA career anymore, cause he just doesn't have enough time left to keep up with those maniacs who only ever wanted to compete in a Sport hold in a Cage. For the fame for the Money..

Is this already the Golden Age of MMA?? Will we never see a top Level Judoka an All American Wrestler, or a ADCC World Submission Wrestling Champion make the transition into MMA anymore.. because he just can't keep up with the "MMA fighter"?? Will this beautiful time of the Sport will die forever, because of young boys who never even heard about a trational Martial Art anymore, like Karate, Judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? All they ever heard about was MMA who some might even wanna call already a "Martial Art"..

..do you feel the same way about this Sport of MMA? Do you feel my pain and the fear that this could and probably will happen someday to the Sport we all Love so much??

I even see myself stop watching this Sport. If all I need to know is, that the MMA guy fights the MMA guy.. two dudes who call MMA there Martial Art. Isn't that a sad thought, that this Sport will 99% head into this direction?!

Will we never see a Demian Maia again..
 
See less See more
#59 ·
It was kind of a joke. I have a couple of friends who wrestled in highschool and are into BJJ and we roll every couple of weeks, and I hit the heavy bag, but basically I'm not actively training fighting anymore. I bike a lot for cardio and do some basic weights and plyo's and that's 90% of my workout these days.

But this isn't my training thread! Let's get back on topic.
 
#63 ·
Even if that does happen at some point, guys will still excel more than others at grappling or striking, so it might not be a clash of pure styles more a clash of opposite strengths because both guys will know how to strike and how to grapple. I'm actually looking forward to that day, when a great striker can't be neutralized simply by taking him down.
 
#65 ·
I have nothing against that at all Ez! And actually we already see that today. Thats already the present!

But we still have the clash of styles as well today and the strong Martial Arts backgrounds from every individual in that Cage. We still have those great ALL American Wrestlers like Chael Sonnen for example. Guys who you just can't stop from taking you down. Thats where the strong Martial Arts background is! If this beautiful aspect of the Sport, wich is so important for me as a fan dies out one day and everybody will call there Background only Mixed Martial Arts anymore.. then my friend the Sport just died for me and I won't watch it anymore.
Of course these so called MMA fighters will have there strenghts and weaknesses. Some will be better strikers and some will be better grapplers.. just where the talent is. But doesn't that make you sad? That there background will only be MMA?? Doesn't that make you sad, that the characters will leave the Sport forever??

Where does that leave the beauty of the Sport?? Where is the unquestionable and unique Martial Arts background from guys like Demian Maia, Lyoto Machida, Anderson, Chael Sonnen and on and on?? Guys who make this Sport so unbeliavble unique and facinating for us.

You look forward to a future with guys like Rory McDonald only?! Isn't that a sad picture of the Sport?

Yeah cause there will be a striker who is so good off his back that even on the ground isn't a safe place!:thumb02:
You mean a guy like Anderson Silva?

Kanto thats not what we are talking about here. This isn't the topic. We are talking about the Martial Art in Mixed Martial Art.
 
#66 ·
i would like knees to the head and no illegal elbow rules, i think you should be able to do anything except the basic offenses like eye gouging,groin strikes,kicks to head when on the ground(even though in pride it was awesome)
 
#67 ·
I agree with your original post Bobby but I don't necessarily think its a bad thing. Pure MMA guys are still gonna have to have a solid mix of stand-up, grappling and a ground game. So whether that's a combination of Muay Thai+Wrestling+BJJ or Boxing+Judo+Wrestling/BJJ whatever, they're still gonna have to study a facet of each. Sure we may not have pure Karate guys, or pure BJJ dudes any more, but that's just the evolution of the sport friend! :thumb02:
 
#68 ·
I don't know Nefil :(

For me as a true Martial Arts fan, the beauty of the Sport would leave. And what remains is just a Sport hold in a Cage..

All those amazing characters and all those different kind of Backgrounds from those fighters make this Sport so unbeliavble unique to me. Thats the most important aspect for me Nefil.

I really couldn't care less, that two dudes who call there Fighting Background Mixed Martial Arts, would go into that Cage and beat the shi.t out of each other. Two dudes who you can't even connect with a True Fighting Background. Doesn't matter if it is Boxing, Kickboxing or something else would be just fine for me. But at least have a Bakcground and Show me where you are coming from.

If all this would just be gone.. I could not see myself still watching this Cage Fighting. I could not handle this Evolution of the sport.
 
#74 ·
I personally don't care how future fighters make their way to the top and I don't understand the need to label fighters to a single discipline. I want to see talented, well rounded fighters that respect the sport.

I'm not particularly interested in watching one dimensional fighters that fail to address their weaknesses. And I wonder if it's worth it for an MMA fighter to become say a master BJJ practitioner rather than become more well rounded in multiple areas.

I can definitely see a benefit to gyms with experts in multiple areas that can bring young fighters up to speed in areas of the most benefit to them in the ring. My hope is that fewer and fewer fighters make dumb mistakes when they enter the ring. A well rounded training regimen can help with that. With that being said, it would seem to me that anyone that starts by learning multiple disciplines would be better off by focusing more time on one area that best suits their natural abilities.
 
#76 ·
What do you have left then is just a simple Combat Sport.. just like Boxing and K-1. The entire excitement to see a Master like Maia, Aoki or Machida fighting at there strong Martial Arts backgrounds would all be gone!
All those unique Characters would leave the Sport right with it.

How can you look forward to this Evolution?? We already reached the point, where most fighters are well rounded Martial Artists. But still they have there unique Martial Arts Background wich makes the person so facinating to us.

I really couldn't care less if two dudes who call there Martial Art MMA would beat each other up. This Sport would lose everything wich makes it so beautiful to me.
 
#77 · (Edited)
There are a couple of points I'd like to make in regards to your proposition.

Let's begin this discussion by comparing the future growth of MMA to sports that already have had a long time to grow, and perhaps develop more standardized techniques. To avoid making this discussion overly convoluted with intangible comparisons let's keep the subject on combat sports. The combat sports that come to mind first are wrestling and boxing. Although wrestling is somewhat lacking in the professional avenue, the amount of time greco roman wrestling has existed for has given it plenty of time to be exposed to the possibility of becoming one-dimensional within itself. I think boxing is a little different, since it's a highly commercialized sport I think the credibility of its depth and growth is a little higher than wrestling. But that's neither here nor there. The comparisons I'm about to make is simply to determine whether or not its likely that MMA will eventually become bland and one-dimensional(within itself).

Now, let's scrutinize these other sports a bit. Let's ask ourselves, "What makes one wrestler or boxer, different from another?" And I think in posing such a comparison, it quickly becomes apparent that these sports still have depth. Whether your strengths as a wrestler be in the clinch -- does he have powerful headlocks that he transitions quickly into? Is his strength simply the speed he can transition from the clinch to a single-leg? Does he have great defense if he is on his back? Or is he a blanket when he gets you onto your back? These are certainly different strengths and weaknesses to consider at high level wrestling. Speed, strength, and technique all factor into what one athlete might excel in over another.

There are similar variations, if not more, in boxing technique. Some fighters enjoy different stances, while others enjoy different types of styles. If you look at Manny Pacquiao and compare him to Floyd Mayweather, for example. You'll see two fighters who are training in the same sport which is rich with growth, age, and technique -- and they have two completely different styles.

Essentially the point I think these comparisons highlight are that despite the similarities in the basic discipline being trained, different individuals will naturally possess different strengths. I don't think there will ever be a day where MMA will be like watching the same fighter fight himself. It just doesn't fit at all with the evolution combat sports have shown in the past, and I would even go as far as to say it doesn't make sense logically. We will always see fighters who are better at a specific discipline of MMA. However, the likely thing that will happen is that we'll begin to stop seeing fighters who have blatant weaknesses in the disciplines that aren't their primary focus.
 
#78 ·
Nice post and I see your point!

We will always see fighters who have different strenghts and weaknesses. Some might be better Wrestlers and like the GnP more then the striking. Some are better Kickboxers and will use there wrestling to keep the fight standing.

I know that this will never change, but that wasn't actually the point of my concerns. I was worried about the "Martial Art" in Mixed Martial Art. Where does that leave the traditional Background?

Is the future really MMA? That means a combination of Muay Thai/Kickboxing + Wrestling + BJJ! Why should I even worry about learning Judo if you can't even use a GI in the Cage?? Why not directely starting out in Wrestling? Why should I learn Karate, if only a few guys were successful at it?? It doesn't make much sense!
So the young generation is going to learn the things wich were so successful.

Consequently, the traditional Martial Arts background and so the beauty of this entire Sport would be gone. We will never be able to actually admire guys like Maia, Nakamura or Lyoto Machida again..
 
#79 ·
I see. I suppose my response would be that you're most likely correct. Statistically, certain styles have been more successful in MMA. And from the perspective of someone wishing to make a career out of that, it makes sense to ignore styles like Karate, which although have been successful, the low percentage of those doing it make it statistically less effective than Muay Thai, in MMA.

However, on a similar note. There are always going to be athletes that rise above the rest and dazzle us. There will always be Michael Jordans, Lyoto Machidas, Muhammad Alis.
 
#81 ·
Exactly! And the kids from today will start learning fighting in those MMA gyms. Just made for guys who one day wanna fight in that cage. It makes me really sad to take that look in the future.

At least we have the chance to discover and to follow the true Golden Age of this Sport right now! Lets just hope it halts as long as possible.

In a couple of years from now, we will think back how great this time really was and how much we miss guys like Demian, Aoki and Lyoto.. guys who make this Sport what it is today!
 
#83 ·
I just wanna add that I share Bobby's fear. The situation in the UFC is different but here in the Balkans, there are more MMA clubs than BJJ clubs. And guys who train in MMA claim that trying to build a foundation is a waste of time, since MMA is it's own concept and one should go directly into MMA if one wishes to compete in it. And if you argue that MMA isn't a martial art by itself, coaches and guys who train dismiss your opinion by saying:"You don't train so your opinion means nothing.". And what's worse they have guys who are getting successful with only MMA as a background.

MMA is a sport IMO, but not a martial art. How can something be called MIXED MARTIAL ARTS and be considered a martial art itself!? It's complete irony! Secondly, those guys call trainers from, or even they themselves train in, other martial art styles. If it's a complete mratial art by itself why do they do that? Do I go to BJJ to learn ground game for judo? Do I go to ***** to learn throws? No, I have all of that in judo!

And thirdly, I consider guys with TMA background far more entertaining than guys without it. I'd rather watch Cung Le a than any match of Forrest Griffin or Rich Franklin.
 
#84 ·
I just wanna add that I share Bobby's fear. The situation in the UFC is different but here in the Balkans, there are more MMA clubs than BJJ clubs. And guys who train in MMA claim that trying to build a foundation is a waste of time, since MMA is it's own concept and one should go directly into MMA if one wishes to compete in it. And if you argue that MMA isn't a martial art by itself, coaches and guys who train dismiss your opinion by saying:"You don't train so your opinion means nothing.". And what's worse they have guys who are getting successful with only MMA as a background.
I would think that gyms like that will not be producing world class MMA fighters. Ones that employ genuine bjj black belts, division 1 wrestlers, K1 vets, etc are the ones that will be successful. But if I get what you are saying, in a few years time one could start having McMMojos :))), where they profess to teach MMA, but don't have anyone teaching specific disciplines at a high level.
 
#86 ·
Get over it Bobs, you are still delusional about this!

Take a chill pill, there are 10x more Martial art gyms around here than there were 10 years ago. I actually have TWO Karate gyms in my area. One GREAT Judo gym, a boxing Gym, which is a MuayThai gym at night, and a Gracie Barra JiuJitsu gym. And I live in a county with about 50,000 people in it..... FIFTY THOUSAND. THAT IS IT!!!!! Spread out over 4 towns!!! We have every main martial art!!!! And the schools are growing at a CRAZY pace because of how insanely popular the UFC is in canada.

We have ONE real MMA gym. And it holds different classes at different times, with mma classes only on weekends. Real instructors, guys who are specialized in their own discipline.

Maybe you don't see things over here, but they aren't bad, In fact things are pretty amazing. You mentioned a few posts ago that maybe you were wrong, and I still think you are Bobs. I've read all of your arguments but they are all assumptions. All evidence points to Martial arts being here to stay, because they are tried, tested, and true ways to win fights.

Be worried about the economy collapsing, society collapsing, your families future, and being forced in to FEMA camps as the world spins out of control, but NOT martial arts.
 
#87 ·
Get over it Bobs, you are still delusional about this!

Take a chill pill, there are 10x more Martial art gyms around here than there were 10 years ago. I actually have TWO Karate gyms in my area. One GREAT Judo gym, a boxing Gym, and a Gracie Barra JiuJitsu gym. And I live in a county with about 50,000 people in it.....

Maybe you don't see things over here, but they aren't bad. You mentioned a few posts ago that maybe you were wrong, and I still think you are Bobs. So no need to worry at all.. I've read all of your arguments but they are all assumptions. All evidence points to Martial arts being here to stay, because they are tried, tested, and true ways to win fights.
I said I hope I am wrong with all this. But I don't believe it anymore SJ, after watching all those videos with those little kids training MMA already. This is really how the future looks guys. Open your eyes and take a look!

This Sport will never be the same.. you guys just don't know it yet.

the thing wich sickens me so much SJ is, that most of you guys even look forward to such a future. How can somebody possibly do this is beyond me??

It's just the beginning man. Look, the UFC just became popular. What do you think will be in 10-20 years?? Every damn city will hundreds of MMA gyms. This is just the beginning of it.. of course there aren't many right now.
 
#92 ·
BobbyCooper: I think you are also confusing two different things. Some people are just inherently more talented than others. Out of 1000 Karate fighters you will not get more than one Machida. Out of 1000 bjjers you will not get more than 1 Maia or Aoki. Guys like Forrest Griffin or Rich Franklin achieve success not through flamboyant styles or perfect technique, but by working harder than most and being tougher than most. It's not like they would be like Machida if they had gone through his experiences. Bottom line is people are different. A guy like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, etc are one in a generation.

Just my 2 cents...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top