Frankly, I think your position on the issue is totally ridiculous, but since you want me to explain why that is, I'll requote the first section of my post, in which I dealt with the original post on the thread:
So, yes. I read the original post. I even responded to it. All of this feels a little redundant now, but I have the day off, so whatever.
Sorry for that IronMan. Your reply is great and I am happy to answer.
Apart from the loaded term "barbaric MMA gym," which is unbelievably irritating, what in hell makes you think that there is going to be a trend away from traditional martial arts?
Are the best fighters in the world slowly becoming less dependent on their backgrounds? Is Brock Lesnar using less wrestling than Dan Severn did? Is Anderson Silva less muay thai intensive than Pedro Rizzo? No.
The fighters are getting better at other areas of the game as well, but the vast majority of successful fighters have a background that they utilize with regularity. They're not homogenizing so much as rounding themselves out, and there's a difference between those two things: they are not sacrificing the skills of their preliminary backgrounds in order to be somewhat competitive in other areas of the fight game.
Apart from the fact that there is absolutely no support for this claim, the pettiness that you would stop watching the sport because there were less stylistically diverse matchups is pretty bizarre.
Props for giving me a complaint I'd never heard before.
The reason for that is, that the time isn't there yet. Brock still was able to make the transition into the Sport of MMA.. even though he wasn't able to develope any kind of striking game so far.
The time to this is still there. Brock is still a guy from this time. As was Dan Severn back then! Dan's and Brock's Wrestling background allowed them to make the transition to MMA.
But this is today! What about in 20 years?? Will an ALL american Wrestler still be able to make the transition into this sport?? I don't believe he can! Same goes for every other MArtial Artist out there. Thats why I always mention Damien Maia in here.. does he really have enough time left?
I don't believe that these guys have enough time left then, to actually develope an at least decent striking game or BJJ game to compete against guys from the new Generation of today.. who started already in an MMA gym. And learned everything together, cause they knew they wanted to become an MMA Fighter someday. But a guy like Brock didn't know that he would rather do this then Pro Wrestling later. He only focused on his Wrestling career at College.
I doupt that he or any other Martial Artist out there, could still keep up with the guys who already learn to compete as an MMA fighter right from the early age. Just for a Sport in a Cage! Guys like Rory McDonald..
Don't you see, that a guy like Rory McDonald, a guy who has such a bright future ahaead of him will rule this Sport and are the next generation of MMA??
These guys do nothing else then to train for this particular Sport. Right from the beginning. They have no background anymore. All the beauty of this Sport will leave us just like that. And everybody will be just that.. an MMA fighter with the dicipline MMA.
I have no clue what's making you think that these guys are becoming less common in MMA. In fact, if you look at the top ten of each division, pretty much everybody out there started in a single style and then transitioned to MMA.
This is very true! But again, you are talking about today. You are talking about this century. This is also the Golden Age of MMA for me. This is the most beautiful time of the entire Sport right now in my eyes.
Like I said above.. what is in 20 years from now?? Do you again seriously believe, that a guy like Brock, Demian or any top Level Judoka could still make the transition and step into this Cage?? Against guys who did nothing else then train for this Cage fighting??
Guys like Rory McDonald are the ones!
Again, you're making it sound like Demian Maia and Shinya Aoki aren't top ten fighters.
How many guys in the top ten right now started training MMA with no prior background in a single style? I can't even think of one.
Again, if this is going to ever be a trend (which I don't think it will) it certainly hasn't shown itself in the sport. Your entire argument is speculative.
Of course, not yet! This is the beautiful time of this Sport. But what about in 20 years?? MMA gyms just started to grow and are getting more and more popular. Guys like Rory McDenold are the new generation in my eyes. Guys without a singe background.. just MMA for the Cage. Just training for this Sport!
Guys like Lyoto, Demian, Shinya.. who make this sport so beautiful will just die out?!
Probably not karate. But BJJ? Yes. Muay thai? Yes. Wrestling? Yes.
I train kids. I see kids who want to be the next Anderson Silva all the time. Frankly, I came to martial arts after watching those middle tier UFC events (late 30s on) and started training BJJ, and muay thai, and Greco-Roman wrestling.
Exactly thats what I am talking about! These guys will not even bother anymore to become one of the best in that particular Martial Art. they just want to fight in that Cage someday.. thats why they train MMA insted of only BJJ or Wrestling. Thats the sad Generation of the Sport I am speaking off.
Do you want me to tell you how the Fighter in 20 years looks like??
I tell ya, he is a combination of Muay Thai (Kickboxing), BJJ and Wrestling.. Thats it! Thats the sad new Generation of fighter. Guys like Rory McDonald..
do you really don't see this Sport heading into this direction?
Frankly, I think that once people look at the sport, they realize that a good base in BJJ isn't going to come at an MMA school. Neither is a good base in wrestling. They will find academies where they can learn those things.
Even professional fighters have discovered that just having an "MMA coach" is insufficient. Brock Lesnar brought Comprido in to train with him. He didn't just work with whatever guys Minnesota Martial Arts had teaching "MMA."
I've been in a lot of "MMA gyms," and it seems pretty apparent to the guys who take their training seriously that learning other styles, putting the gi on or lacing up 12 ounce gloves, is important to developing a technically sound game. There are fighters who don't get that, but the ones who do are the ones who are going to be good.
I never questioned that. And I think thats very true what you are saying here. But thats exactly the thing I am worried about. They will pick up everything from all those Martial Arts. And they will probably become great MMA fighter who can use there training then nobody else. But do really look forward to this generation?? nobody becomes really great at one thing? But good at everything?? For the sport and the Cage.
I still want to enjoy guys like Shinya, Nakamura, Yoshida, Lyoto.. who really gave there all, to become great at there Martial Art. And that doesn't work here anymore.. guys who train everything at ones will never be known as the ADCC World Submission Champion.. they will just be that an MMA fighter.
I think Demian Maia's training regimen didn't change that much in transitioning to MMA. I'm not worried we're going to see fewer top tier grapplers in MMA over the next ten to fifteen years. Apart from the facts that the number of world class grapplers we've seen has increased over the last five, that there's more money in MMA and that a grappling base can still win a lot of fights, traditional BJJ practitioners believe that they have a roll to play in MMA, even as the sport changes.
I hope you are so right with this!
I don't know that we'll ever see a substantial contingent of judo guys in the top ten.
But my reasons for thinking that have nothing to do with competitors like Akiyama or Nakamura disappearing, because their not. We've seen Dream and Sengoku sign a couple of very high level judo practitioners over the last year, and I can say just from personal experience that the level of interest in MMA in the judo community is growing, not diminishing.
The reason I think we won't ever have a substantial judo contingent in the top ten is that I think the absence of the gi severely limits judo competitors in MMA, and that limitation means judo players have to spend more time transitioning than they really have.
Also, the fighters who compete in judo don't even think about transitioning sports until later in their career. These aren't kids who are going to train at an MMA academy instead. If anything, you have to worry about the Japanese wrestlers doing that. The judo tradition in Japan is so strong that I can't believe it would be substantially diminished by kids deciding they want to do MMA.
Again, you are talking about today. I know that this time is very beautiful and probably the Golden Age of the Sport. But I am worried about 20 years from now..
The Gi is a big obstacles for the Judo guys, thats true. For me Gi's should be allowed again in MMA. It makes the Sport even more unique and great. I still don't know why they had to ban them.
But some made the transition into MMA because they couldn't reach there goal on the Olympic Level. Guys like Akiyama or Nakamura. Thats the thing.. some might don't even consider to step into MMA.. because they believe in there dream. But what happens if this dream is not achievable anymore?? Some might wanna make the transiton into MMA, just like Akiyama and Nakamura. But they will realize, that the time has changed.. and that MMA is now a true Sport with young mans and womans, who only ever trained MMA to compete in MMA. Judokas like Nakamura, see that and realize.. ohh I think I can not keep up with this new Generation anymore.
Why should I bother to step inside that cage, just to get beat up by some.. who didn't do anything else in there life??
Again, I see no reason to believe that will happen.
I believe this Sport will change forever..
Sure. The money in MMA is good enough, and there will continue to be good grapplers who look over at MMA and say "I can do that."
We've seen more of those guys over the last five years than we have at any point in the history of the sport prior. We've seen it coming from wrestling. We've seen it coming from BJJ and Abu Dhabi.
Yes, this right now is the paek of MMA! Masters from all kind of diciplines jump in it and try there luck, to become a MMA champion. But again you are talking about today.. is this really still possible in lets say 20 years. When every MMA gym is full from those Rory McDonald guys??! Who know already everything and are already complete fighter.
Again you are talking about today.. This right now, here and now, is the Golden Age of MMA for me. But in 20 years this Sport will change forever.. and not in a good way my friend.
Again, I'm having trouble taking you seriously.
Anyone who thinks that Rory Macdonald represents a significant change in the face of MMA should be equally convinced that Luke Cummo was going to make JKD a formidable fighting style in MMA.
Look at the top ten. How many of those guys started training the way Rory did? None of them.
In fact, the number of guys who came from strictly "MMA/toughman" backgrounds has decreased in the top ten since the days of the old UFC. Before, we actually had guys who didn't have a single style background.
Contemporary fighters are more dependent on a background in a single style to be effective and, just to be clear, the kids who are starting training now, who represent the next generation of fighters, know that.
There are meathead adults who think that they can become MMA fighters by going to an MMA class and doing circuits and learning basic techniques. Those guys (by virtue of that poor approach to training) will never take over the sport.
I think there's no reason to believe that the sport will ever take the road you're talking about. There's no indication that its on that road now.
Rory McDonald has one of the greatest futures in MMA ahead of him. Haven't you seen his fight against Condit?? The guy is only 20 years of age.. and already is a complete MMA fighter who just need more experience and training. They guy has no Background. His Background is called MMA. Thats the sad picture of the new generation from this Sport. He is the flagship of this new generation.
This guy has only 1 proffessional loss so far IronMan. This is the sad sad future of this beautiful sport.