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Old 08-23-2010, 05:58 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I think this pretty much sums it up.


http://www.cagepotato.com/%E2%80%98s...urgel-vs-noons


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Even 12 hours later, it’s difficult to fully grasp the ways in which Jorge Gurgel’s fight with KJ Noons turned into a terrible abortion at Saturday night’s Strikeforce: Houston show. Suffice it to say, a lot of things went horribly wrong and nearly everyone involved failed miserably to do their jobs.

As he almost always does, Gurgel came into the fight with the worst possible game plan, essentially guaranteeing defeat before the bout even started. Meanwhile, Noons crammed not one, but two blatantly illegal strikes into just over five minutes of fighting. For his part, referee Kerry Hatley seemed not to notice either of the infractions, then totally bungled one of the more obvious stoppage situations you’ll ever encounter in MMA. All the while the Strikeforce broadcast team reconfirmed for viewers its complete inability to adjust on the fly when even the slightest controversy rears its head.

First the obvious stuff: At the very least, Noons should’ve lost a point for his tardy punch on Gurgel at the end of round one and most probably, this fight should never have been allowed to see round two. After the knee? Well, you're probably looking at DQ, or at best a no contest. Instead, Noons rolls out of Houston a big winner.

Note that the audio in the above video may be a little off. As it happened live, Noon clearly blasts Gurgel with a left hook after the bell to end the first round. Intentional? No, but Noons’ purpose shouldn’t matter when it comes to enforcing MMA’s unified rules. The blow is certainly illegal and Gurgel is obviously on queer street after absorbing it. Referee Hatley has to physically drag him to his corner during the break. After that though, the ref doesn’t do a thing. Because the camera remains in Gurgel’s corner during the one-minute respite between rounds, it’s clear that no medical official checks to see if Gurgel is mentally fit to continue before the start of the second. This despite the fact that the audio track makes it clear the fighter has no idea what just happened.

Wonder of all wonders, the BJJ ace gets knocked pretty much cold 13 seconds into the next round with the first two real strikes Noons throws. With Gurgel on the mat looking absolutely done, Noons first appeals for a stoppage (give him credit for that, at least) but then adds the illegal knee a couple seconds later. Again, no reaction at all from Hatley, who first seems hesitant to stop the fight and then appears to either totally miss or not give a damn about the knee to a downed and helpless Gurgel.

Now for the secondary stuff: Just about every chance they get, the Strikeforce broadcast team seems intent on making themselves look like fools and this fight was a great example.

After round one, the three-man team demonstrates an across-the-board failure to react to Noons’ first illegal blow. Aside from a sputtering metaphor from Mauro Ranallo – "He wrung his bell after the bell!" – and Frank Shamrock’s assurances that the punch is somehow OK because Noons throws it “in the flow” of his combination, very little is made of it. Play-by-play announcer Gus Johnson even comments that Noons has just shown “his superior boxing” by dropping his opponent after the bell.

Their reaction to the knee is even worse. To his credit, Ranallo is the only member of the team to respond to the illicit nature of shot for 10 or so seconds. Johnson is still wondering aloud if the fight is over while Noons scales the wall of the cage in celebration and Gurgel stumbles around the mat trying to figure out what’s going on. Shamrock, who has always had trouble determining when knees are illegal, then engages in a sniping back-and-forth with Ranallo, because even after the slow-motion replay "The Legend" remains convinced the knee was A-OK. I swear, sometimes it seems like this dude is watching a slightly different version of the fights than the rest of the world.

To wrap the package of incompetence up in a neat little bow, Johnson totally fails to ask Noons even one question about the stoppage or the illegal shots during their postfight interview. The ineptitude of it all actually made me wish Joe Rogan was there to show Gus how a professional might do it.

As for Gurgel, his willingness to eschew his grappling skills in some misguided attempt to be “exciting” puts my personal interest at ever watching him fight again at around zero percent. One of the reasons I watch MMA instead of, say, kickboxing is because I want to see great grapplers grapple. I don’t want to see them run around pretending to be strikers en route to getting knocked out by dudes like KJ Noons. That’s just sad.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The hook at the end of the first round was too close to the bell to be judged illegal, however I didn't like that kick at the end ...
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The last part of that article completely sums up how I felt watching it. The commentators were laughing and making jokes about both illegal strikes from Noons, and in the post fight talk Johnson doesn't acknowledge the late strikes at all and Noons just weakly splutters something about how great an opponent Jorge is. If Strikeforce want to be taken seriously as an MMA promoter they need to act seriously, completely disregarding the rules doesn't help. I think they're inability to get their top two HWs to fight was embarrassing enough, but Saturday's fight was another moment I'm sure Coker will wish to forget. And if the oxygen can thing is true also then its just another joke in the long list.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The punch in the first happened at the bell so no biggie. The illegal knee was hard to tell if it even landed. It wouldn't have effected the outcome of the fight either way. I think it's getting a little blown out of proportion. I need to go watch the fight again but didn't he already start throwing the knee before the ref grabbed him? I guess I'm not seeing as quite of a big deal as everyone else.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indestructibl3 View Post
The hook at the end of the first round was too close to the bell to be judged illegal, however I didn't like that kick at the end ...
No he started motion before the bell rang. Also it doesn't matter if he meant to do it or not. A late blow that causes a guy to go down has to earn at least a point away. Gurgel had no business even being in that fight after that. It doesn't matter whether he meant to do it or not. When it was seen that Gurgel couldn't continue, Noons should have been DQ'd
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:28 AM   #16 (permalink)
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You pretty much can't stop a punch once you're in the motion. I really don't see anything wrong with it.
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Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
No he started motion before the bell rang. Also it doesn't matter if he meant to do it or not. A late blow that causes a guy to go down has to earn at least a point away. Gurgel had no business even being in that fight after that. It doesn't matter whether he meant to do it or not. When it was seen that Gurgel couldn't continue, Noons should have been DQ'd
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't think we should blame Noons here. I mean he was begging/asking/looking at the ref to stop the fight, after his opponent was badly badly hurt. The knee was just a very unintentional move in my opinion.

The ref should not be allowed to ref a fight again in such a big promotion. You could even question his decision to let Gurgel continue after the first round Knock Down. I think the fight should have been stopped there already!

Him vs. Nick Diaz

I will bet on KJ!
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The punch was 100% legal anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't understand the sport or the rules of the sport. You can't start your throwing motion after the bell. Right before or during it is legal and that is when Noons started. If it lands after the bell is irrelevant to whether or not it was legal. The bell is a signal that the round is ending not that it is over for the exact reason we saw in this fight. It wouldn't be right to DQ someone because of a lack of grace period for thrown strikes.

Not stopping the fight after the first, after he was dropped in the second, and then hesitating on the actual stoppage can all be called into question. I am still not convinced the knee landed, maybe it grazed him. The ref pushed Noons in mid motion and we really can't say definitively we know Noons intended to knee him in the head or how the push changed the direction of the strike. It is irrelevant to the outcome of the fight though because it was stopped before it landed(if it did) and would be a disciplinary matter for the commission not grounds for the ref to overturn the decision.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:57 AM   #19 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
I don't think we should blame Noons here. I mean he was begging/asking/looking at the ref to stop the fight, after his opponent was badly badly hurt. The knee was just a very unintentional move in my opinion.

The ref should not be allowed to ref a fight again in such a big promotion. You could even question his decision to let Gurgel continue after the first round Knock Down. I think the fight should have been stopped there already!

Him vs. Nick Diaz

I will bet on KJ!
The knee was unintentional? It was a blatant violation of the rules he knee'd him in the head he clearly means to knee him in the head so how is it unintentional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
The punch was 100% legal anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't understand the sport or the rules of the sport. You can't start your throwing motion after the bell. Right before or during it is legal and that is when Noons started. If it lands after the bell is irrelevant to whether or not it was legal. The bell is a signal that the round is ending not that it is over for the exact reason we saw in this fight. It wouldn't be right to DQ someone because of a lack of grace period for thrown strikes.

Not stopping the fight after the first, after he was dropped in the second, and then hesitating on the actual stoppage can all be called into question. I am still not convinced the knee landed, maybe it grazed him. The ref pushed Noons in mid motion and we really can't say definitively we know Noons intended to knee him in the head or how the push changed the direction of the strike. It is irrelevant to the outcome of the fight though because it was stopped before it landed(if it did) and would be a disciplinary matter for the commission not grounds for the ref to overturn the decision.
That knee and Noons intention are so easy to see Stevie Wonder just called and said the ref should be ashamed of himself. It is so clear how can you act like its questionable whether or not it landed. Do you not realize not a single other person has questioned it? The fact that it did no change the outcome is why I think it should be a NC. I hate when a fighter gets a DQ win after being dominated but I think Noons needs to be punished and I think a NC accomplishes that. He violated the rules and it should be treated as such. I can't stand when people say if it didn't change anything it shouldn't matter. I swear if Shane Carwin fought Stefan Struve and brought a tire iron into the cage and bashed Struve in the head there would be a couple people who would think Carwin still won since him knocking out Struve was inevitable anyway and the tire iron didn't effect what the outcome would have been.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
I think this pretty much sums it up.


http://www.cagepotato.com/%E2%80%98s...urgel-vs-noons
ok the part about the punch at the end of rnd 1.... all i say is..



2nd, the author talks of no one but mauro talking of the knee... when clearly frank says i dunno if it landed, lets watch a replay..... and then says oh yeah thats an illegal knee.... this author needs to find a new job.

and im talking about the article, not the poster.


Edit: why the **** wont embedding work anymore for me?!?!!?!?
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